Can You Tell The Difference??? ASH vs. ALDER

[HaMMerHeD]

“First of all (and speaking from a steel string guitar perspective), let’s discard the notion that some species of wood make good instruments and that others don’t. The concept of tonewood is a hoax. Of the few things that we can do to a guitar and still call it a guitar, changing the wood it is made of will have the least impact upon the quality of the sound that it produces. The tone of a guitar lies more in the hands of the builder than in the materials from which it is constructed.”​

That quote is from John Calkin (from the Guild of American Luthiers) in his article “The Heretic’s Guide to Alternative Lutherie Woods”.

It's a very educational read. Check it out: http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

That is a very interesting read. Thanks Dan.

 

[Jim C]

Very informative thread & test; thanks.

 

[unclejane]

Yep, I can't tell the slightest difference. Listened to them on my mac through my Sony hi-fi headphones and all 4 clips sound the same to me.

That's in accord with my general impressions over the last 30 years of playing bass, so I don't think anything has changed.

Nice test!

LS

 

[hdracer]

Thanks Dan. I did not vote because I really could not tell any difference in any of the tests, but I also know that my ears are not as well trained or as sensitive as many others.
I knew I would get a good laugh when this was over, and I did.
So to summarize this: Ash= nice grain, Alder= ?

 

[chadds]

Cool that you showed how subjective things can be. I have adjusted the eq on a channel once when mixing and thought I heard a difference only to see that that channel was indeed off!

Conversely I do hear the subtle differences in woods sometimes.
I ask here, what if upon picking up a bass and discerning it's stiffness and response, what if, we vary our touch?

 

[unclejane]

And that's just after the first 3 pages. So people swore they could hear a noticeable difference in tone FROM THE EXACT SAME BASS. To me, this is more evidence that body wood has minimal impact on tone, and that tone is far more impacted by other factors, including our own heads.

Had to lol at this. And fortunately I didn't find this post revealing the woods until after I listened to the clips the first time. I listened to them again after finding out the wood types and the first time I swore there was a difference between the 2's. Second time they sounded the same.

So indeed, if the controls are as Dan described them, it definitely looks like this shows the wood type to be way down in the noise of other factors such as the particular touch used in any given performance and all the rest.

Told you guys.... but you didn't believe me...

LS

 

[Gomeztool]

In some tests like these I also noticed that when a respectable member posts his observations and makes a choice, many people start "hearing" the same things said respectable member "heard" and vote the same way. Following the thread I think that is what happened here when one of the well regarded TBers got the ball rolling towards poll option 2.

 

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

In some tests like these I also noticed that when a respectable member posts his observations and makes a choice, many people start "hearing" the same things said respectable member "heard" and vote the same way. Following the thread I think that is what happened here when one of the well regarded TBers got the ball rolling towards poll option 2.

Yep, I noticed the same thing.

 

[Fuzzbass]

My position is that wood indeed DOES matter. However, I believe it matters very little. Other factors contribute to tone much more than wood choice (like pickups, strings, neck construction, the player, etc).

I completely agree with you! Not only that, but your test is proof enough.

Answering before looking: for example 1 I'd say A is ash and B is alder, but as you say, the differences are incredibly subtle and I won't be surprised if I'm wrong. Can't tell in example 2.

 

[chadds]

If there were indeed an alder and an ash bass tested here:

It could prove that two pieces of wood can sound similar.
It could demonstrate that those two basses sound alike.
It may prove that our human tester didn't attempt, through his technique, to bring out of those two instruments their own unique qualities.

 

[Spencer!]

Wow, I guess we hear what we want to hear. Still doesn't convince me that wood doesn't have an effect on the tone, though - I've played too many nearly identical basses that sound completely different to think that.

 

[danclaro]

I heard a difference between the first and second ones, and the second one sounded like my alder pj. I thought the first Lemon Song clip was alder too... Really does go to show you that the body wood isn't as significant as one might think.

Dan - Thanks for doing this - looking forward to your test with the different necks!

 

[rbolanos]

I am quite surprised!
buy I have to admit that samples 2a and 2b are a bit deceiving since the volume on 2b drops a bit.....same technique? just saying.

 

[arsie]

Wow - over 1600 views of this thread and only 60 responses and 66 votes. You could put an interpretation on that, perhaps.

Well, I did give them a listen, but I do not have the wealth of experience enough about the two types of woods to be able to vote intelligently. I suspect there must have been a lot like myself.

 

[Jumbotron]

I did OK, I think, but stopped too soon. I got that 1a is ash and 1b is alder. Then I figured that the second set was the same as the first. So I didn't listen to it before I voted. Oops!

Anyway, I can definitely hear a difference in the first set. I asked myself which of the samples sounds more like my own bass, which is ash, and it's the first.

 

[arsie]

Wood tone is not an argument it's a fact. Take an ovangkol neck with wenge fingerboard neck vs maple neck with rosewood fingerboard...

This experiment was about the bass body's wood, not the neck/fingerboard wood. I too agree with you that neck and fingerboard wood does have an audible difference.

 

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

If there were indeed an alder and an ash bass tested here:

It could prove that two pieces of wood can sound similar.
It could demonstrate that those two basses sound alike.
It may prove that our human tester didn't attempt to bring out of those two instruments their own unique qualities.

The point of this thread is to test people's ability to discern the difference in tone between Ash and Alder.

The point is not to "bring out the unique qualities" of 2 instruments.

 

[Jim C]

Wow, I guess we hear what we want to hear

Well said.
Can we all agree that the potential for a greater tonal variation would be more evident when the difference in wood density is huge?

In the big picture ash vs. alder are in the same ball park, as opposed to say balsa wood and Ipe (Brazillian walnut).

 

[Spencer!]

Well said.
Can we all agree that the potential for a greater tonal variation would be more evident when the difference in wood density is huge?

That's my suspicion as well. An ash and an alder body of the same density might sound almost the same, but a 7 pound alder jazz bass sounds a hell of a lot different than a 9 pound alder jazz bass.

 

[fish slapper]

Glad I got my licks in before you closed it. I did hear a slight difference between the first two but couldn't really tell a difference in the second two. I guessed since the second sample had more low notes that the difference was in the high therefore voted that both A's were ash and both B's were Alder. So I was half fooled.

So, yes I heard a difference but so slight...

Point well taken. I have been an ash snob for a couple years but have lately been lusting after the nicer grain of alder. I did feel the ash was "darker" but so slight as to be a non-factor. The difference could be more than made up for in EQ, string choice, speaker, etc.

Thanks for the good exercise.