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Carl Thompson called me yesterday....

#122
cosmicevan said:
@Brad Johnson I would recommend that you only work with builders who expect to be given strict measurements of your needs. The point is that Carl is not that kind of builder...and just because you pay him thousands of dollars, you shouldn’t expect him to be that kind of builder. He doesn’t get paid thousands of dollars per instrument because he will build you the exact bass you dreamed up...he gets paid thousands of dollars per bass because people want his instruments bad enough that they will pay that money and wait the time to get one. Just because you have different standards for what happens when you buy an expensive bass doesn’t mean that you are right or wrong. This is just how this situation is...and for those who are appalled by this situation, that’s ok...there are plenty of us who are not. Call us fan boys, call us blind loyalists, call us fools...we are extremely happy with the bass Carl delivers and if not...honestly you could probably flip it and make a few bucks since Carl doesn’t charge as much as he could (that’s not something you can say about ANY luthier willing to build a bass to your exact specs).
Click to expand...

Wow. Seriously, wow.
:D

This is ridiculous. Surprisingly so. So wanting a particular string spacing is your idea of being given strict measurements of your needs? It is one important measurement for many players.
:D

The rest is as presumptive and frankly silly as the beginning. Not once did I mention building a damn thing to exact specs but people like you love to get a wild hair and it's off to the races. Why? Is it really that difficult to see outside of your goggles?

My different standard as you call it doesn't involve me giving $6k to a builder and saying "Surprise me". And I'm absolutely right in how I set my expectations for how I spend my money. My basses speak to that.

Yes, the names you called yourself would explain why you'd apparently let Carl do whatever he wants, even something you don't care for, in silence and awe. Cool. I wouldn't trust anyone to do that instead of giving them some insight into what I like.

And to add to the silliness: "and if not...honestly you could probably flip it and make a few bucks".

Right. Except that wasn't my experience with mine. I got it well below market and I was lucky to break even after several months on sale. You can take a loss just like any other brand. With your mindset you can keep your recommendations to yourself, I have plenty of successful experience with high end instruments and it wasn't based on hope and fandom.
:D
 
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#123
chadds said:
He may know what he’s talking about. The thing is “you” need to know what he’s talking about. Play one. If you’re far away can he send you one to try?
He’s talking about his basses. It isn’t a truth for all basses yet it might be for his and your needs you shared with him. This is for playing Polka Funk, right?
Click to expand...


Nah, just trust him... the worst that could happen is that you won't like the result and you might recoup the money (but not the time) spent.
:D
 
#124
So the OP:
- ordered a custom bass
- the builder suggested a change to the specs
- the OP went with it and wanted to share his experience

...and people are somehow slightly offended by this (mainly the act of spec change suggestion from the builder), feel the need to demean his choice and come to the barricades in defense of the holy 34"?

That's how I'm reading this. And I don't mean to offend anyone, to me it just feels a bit funny. :D

To the OP: Remember - no pics, no bass. That's the most important thing here, and what we all should be waiting for.
 
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#126
Fathand said:
So the OP:
- ordered a custom bass
- the builder suggested a change to the specs
- the OP went with it and wanted to share his experience

...and people are somehow slightly offended by this (mainly the act of spec change suggestion from the builder), feel the need to demean his choice and come to the barricades in defense of the holy 34"?
*
You just hit the nail on the head

Prominent luthier called th OP to offer a change in specs that may benefit OP.

OP excited as Luthier took the extra time to make certain the original specs would really work for him... vs. simply making the bass at 34” and the OP possibly be less than satisfied....I would appreciate the Luthier calling me as well

I did not read that the OP was given an ultimatum but rather given another option.
Click to expand...
 
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#127
All those who "smell sales" here are simply wrong. If you want to convince yourselfs of that, just watch the CT-videos on youtube (on of whicht got linked here). I don´t know Carl Thompson personally, i don´t live in NY or the states. But if you see those vids it becomes clear that he is not a business man. in this regard he is "un-professional". Everybody involved in marketing or accounting would probably triple facepalm about the way Carl Thompson Basses works and would strongly sugguest to do as Fodera did to turn it into a more profitable and self sustaining business.

So whatever the OP decides to do, he will be fine and he won´t be ripped of or played, that is for sure. It was just a suggestion at the point in the building process where such a decision still could be made.

Again, you don´t have to believe me, you can just get all the info you need in those videos.
 
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#128
I stumbled upon the (December, I think) "Holiday" 2014 issue of Bass Player featuring Les Claypool on the cover last night at my Mom's house. (Weird coincidence; facebook probably made that happen).

In the interview, Les talked bout his experience with Carl. When asked why he ended up subsequently creating the Pachyderm, his response was something like: Carls' basses are unique; you adjust your playing style to them. I wanted to build something that was designed to fit mine. He also told the story of not playing his first CT much at first due to neck-dive, receiving a call from Carl - who somehow noticed he hadn't been playing it much, and reluctantly sending it back... and Carl did exactly what has been described here - he lopped of the top horn and added a new one.

Les is a polite and humble guy; I wouldn't expect to him express disappointment in an interview if he had any. He also described playing a kinda wonky plywood dobro-bass that a manufacturer sent him (after it sat around untouched for a while)... and that he adjusted his style to fit/find what the instrument could / would do to the point that it was prominent in the rotation for awhile for some projects.

So, if Les chimed on this thread (I like to imagine that 20% of y'all are really my heroes posing as average Joes - especially we see things differently), maybe he'd see both sides: maybe there are good reasons to let l'artiste build the thing that presents us a stretch opportunity, and good reasons to seek the perfect fit for where we are now.
 
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#129
I own 3 CT basses and have another on order. I met Carl through a phone call 15 years ago, and we've been friends since. I feel like I have some modest experience interacting with Carl having visited him in his shop 5 or so times over the years.

Ordering a CT bass is totally different than from most builders. He has his way of doing things. If you want to spec out all aspects of your instrument, which I feel is the "right" way to order an instrument, than Carl isn't the builder for you. The way it is with Carl, is you have limited input. For my builds, I chose scale length (offered 32, 36, and 38"), fretted vs fretless, ball scroll or hook scroll, light or dark woods. I think that was it. During one build, he asked what pickup I wanted.

Despite this being what I feel is the "wrong" way to drop a lot of money on an instrument, this is the way I've agreed to do things. I enjoy the process of leaving much of the decision making up to Carl and his crew. I have faith they will create an instrument I will enjoy for a long time and give to my kids, and I have always been thrilled with the results.

To be honest, I think most bass customers would be wise to steer clear of ordering a CT instrument because his shop is very different than most. But for me, I've been more than happy with my experience, and will continue to hold Carl as a human being, musician, and builder in very high regard.

Most people are putting their efforts into zigging in one direction. Carl and his shop have been zagging for years, and will likely continue to do things this way. This thread comes up every few years and it's the same arguments on both sides. I think both sides are right. But I don't think Carl cares too much about these issues. And I know he certainly doesn't need me here supporting him. But I'll continue to zag with Carl's shop all day long.

The one point I will add to the discussion is that a 36" scale CT feels very different than any other 36" I've played. The way he brings the headstock back to keep your fretting hand close to your body and the effort that is taken to create a light weight and balanced instrument makes the 36" rather easy to get around. To the OP - best of luck with your decision.
 
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#132
Brad Johnson said:
Wow. Seriously, wow.
:D

This is ridiculous. Surprisingly so. So wanting a particular string spacing is your idea of being given strict measurements of your needs? It is one important measurement for many players.
:D

The rest is as presumptive and frankly silly as the beginning. Not once did I mention building a damn thing to exact specs but people like you love to get a wild hair and it's off to the races. Why? Is it really that difficult to see outside of your goggles?

My different standard as you call it doesn't involve me giving $6k to a builder and saying "Surprise me". And I'm absolutely right in how I set my expectations for how I spend my money. My basses speak to that.

Yes, the names you called yourself would explain why you'd apparently let Carl do whatever he wants, even something you don't care for, in silence and awe. Cool. I wouldn't trust anyone to do that instead of giving them some insight into what I like.

And to add to the silliness: "and if not...honestly you could probably flip it and make a few bucks".

Right. Except that wasn't my experience with mine. I got it well below market and I was lucky to break even after several months on sale. You can take a loss just like any other brand. With your mindset you can keep your recommendations to yourself, I have plenty of successful experience with high end instruments and it wasn't based on hope and fandom.
:D
Click to expand...

Wow indeed. Not going to argue with you...so I guess you win? I mean why are you even engaging in this thread other than to fight w people who think differently than you and prove why you are right.

Clearly the way Carl does things is a problem for you so best to just agree to disagree and move on. Like I said, you probably shouldn't work with Carl or attempt to as you will likely both be disappointed that you got involved with each other.
 
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#133
TwentyHz said:
I stumbled upon the (December, I think) "Holiday" 2014 issue of Bass Player featuring Les Claypool on the cover last night at my Mom's house. (Weird coincidence; facebook probably made that happen).

In the interview, Les talked bout his experience with Carl. When asked why he ended up subsequently creating the Pachyderm, his response was something like: Carls' basses are unique; you adjust your playing style to them. I wanted to build something that was designed to fit mine. He also told the story of not playing his first CT much at first due to neck-dive, receiving a call from Carl - who somehow noticed he hadn't been playing it much, and reluctantly sending it back... and Carl did exactly what has been described here - he lopped of the top horn and added a new one.

Les is a polite and humble guy; I wouldn't expect to him express disappointment in an interview if he had any. He also described playing a kinda wonky plywood dobro-bass that a manufacturer sent him (after it sat around untouched for a while)... and that he adjusted his style to fit/find what the instrument could / would do to the point that it was prominent in the rotation for awhile for some projects.

So, if Les chimed on this thread (I like to imagine that 20% of y'all are really my heroes posing as average Joes - especially we see things differently), maybe he'd see both sides: maybe there are good reasons to let l'artiste build the thing that presents us a stretch opportunity, and good reasons to seek the perfect fit for where we are now.
Click to expand...

Derailing for a minute here........ "Les is a polite and humble guy" ??? Have you met him? My band opened for him many years ago and he was a collosal dick, rude and really lame...........
 
#134
Being honest, IF I had the money to put towards it I would absolutely love to back up the money truck to Carl and say "go nuts!".

I don't have a money truck, of course. But I think that it would be really cool to see what he can come up with and then see what *I* can do on it.

I think we all adjust to our basses, don't we? I certainly didn't pick up a Fender Jazz and say "well, that's it! Perfect in every way!". I do love 'em though.
 
#135
cosmicevan said:
Wow indeed. Not going to argue with you...so I guess you win? I mean why are you even engaging in this thread other than to fight w people who think differently than you and prove why you are right.

Clearly the way Carl does things is a problem for you so best to just agree to disagree and move on. Like I said, you probably shouldn't work with Carl or attempt to as you will likely both be disappointed that you got involved with each other.
Click to expand...


Because you decided to come at me with some straight up BS. That's why I chose to participate in this thread? Who was I fighting with? Duh. Who started this nonsense?

You.

The way Carl does things is not a problem for me. As a self-described fanboy you seem to be blinded to what is actually being said. I did not say anything about completely specing out a bass but you and others have run with that nonsense. Why? Isn't reality good enough for you?

Apparently not. Enjoy the fantasy world.

And I'm engaging in this thread because I have an opinion on the subject. And it didn't include you. Ask yourself why you addressed me with your lies? What made you do that? IMO you're the worst kind of fanboy, one who sees offense where there is none and defends a luthier who doesn't need it.

I have worked with several luthiers who offer their vision. But not nailing down a basic preference like string spacing or scale length leaves room for dissatisfaction, which I personally don't think is very bright, being as easily avoidable as it is. So your "trust Carl and sell it if you don't like it" is beyond silly considering the investment in time and money.

This fantasy of people going to a luthier with their own design is far from the norm... so why pretend it is? For the angst and soapboxing?
 
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#136
IamGroot said:
Dumb question, but has the OP tried a 36 scale on a CT model similar to what he is ordering?
Click to expand...

Finding a CT to try out outside of the shop can be difficult. When I found my 77 fretless a few years back it was the first I'd seen in this area since the early 80's. 36" scale basses in general are tough to come by, not a very popular scale length.
 
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#138
gyancey said:
I've built a few 36" scale basses, they were cool. On four string at least my strings of choice (DR Sunbeams) fit no problem. For reference the nut on your favorite 34" bass is almost exactly where fret #1 will be on a 36" scale. My hands only ever felt stretchy on riffs with a lot of 1st->4th fret jumps. Just avoid surf music in F and you'll be fine. If you ever want to have it feel like a 34" bass again you can downtune 1/2 step and capo at the first fret, or just leave it in Eb tuning and sound enormous.
Click to expand...


Great to see you here, Greg. Are you building again?
 
#139
Bottom line:
CT does not make custom basses to your specs
He builds his basses with maybe a couple of options

You either buy his stuff because you love it or you don't
Scale length, intonation, the way a bass sits, etc. are not really relevant as the builder has his way.

Imagine telling Carrol Shelby that his race winning cars would be much faster with a Chevy engine.
They very well might be but that's not what the he uses.
 
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