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Carol Kaye Threads (meerged)

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#41
I actually e-mailed Carol Kaye, and she tells me she didn't play on those Four Seasons sides. So BassLand is right about it being an "East Coast" thing.

She did play on stuff like "Midnight Confessions" by the Grass Roots, however, which is still a pretty unique style. Frankly, though, it's much closer to Jameson's.

I still don't think Carol played on the actual Motown records. However, based upon my re-evaluation of what I thought was her playing style, there may be some creedence to the whole demo theory.
 
#42
The thing that makes me upset is that carol has a history of such claims. she camed to play on son of a preacher man which was recorded in memphis with tommy cogbill. she claimed to have played on the mama and papa's stuff that joe osbourne played on. then she claimed to have helped leo fender redesign the fender precision bass pickup. Pretty nifty if she didn't start playing in 1963 and the final revisions to the p bass pickup was in 57
 
#44
Hi Steve Holroyd.

You wrote She did play on stuff like "Midnight Confessions" by the Grass Roots, however, which is still a pretty unique style. Frankly, though, it's much closer to Jameson's.

I am of the opinion that the only simularity between the styles of James Jamerson and Carol Kaye is the fact that they are (was, in Jamerson's case) both electric bass players. How they came to the electric was is very different as can be detected by listening to their respective styles.

It is a case of Upright player who played the electric bass with his fingers verses guitar player who played electric bass with a pick. Their inventions on the instrument and their role in the music they played are extreemly different.
 
#47
Carole is a very talented musician,and one of the best teachers as well.she has her very own aproach.she is not only a great bassist but she is considered one of the best readers in the history of the instrument.her method books are highly respected and sought after by serious students as well as pro's.she is a very nice and inteligent person and a killer guitarist as well(she was an established guitarist before she became a bassist)
 
#50
I'm currently studying with Carol Kaye. I've studied with her for 3 years now. I am also friends with Jauqo III-x, and he is right. Carol Is a brilliant player and has a solid approach. What is meant by that is that she teaches a bass player to contribute a bassline to the music that will outline the chord changes effectively, not step on the vocalist, be creatively strong so the listener is not bored with a monotenous line that has no character. Many bass players can create a line that will simply pass, but Carol teaches her students not to be satisfied with mediocricy.
 
#52
I've studied with Carol Kaye for 3 years now. I know first hand what she is and is not claiming. She did not claim to do all of Jamerson's work. What she said was that many people don't know that about 40 % of motown was recorded in L.A. (Many people believe that all of it was recorded in Detroit) Of the 40 % that was recorded in L.A, she was 1 of 3 bassists to record those sessions. That is all she is claiming. The only real dispute over an actual song is "Bernadette." She sat down with me and the sheet music and showed me where she felt she made mistakes on the chart and that's why you here certain notes in the recording. She believes that she recorded it because of the memories of the session, the playing, etc. She has nothing to gain by claiming a song she didn't do when she HAS been documented as playing on over 10,000 great songs during the 60's and 70's. I love Jamerson, and I love Carol. That's never gonna change. It's too bad that when people of color or women have a controversy the rest of their accomplishments get buried by the negativity of people that love to speculate. I wasn't at the sessions, and neither were any of the people that are so adamantly putting Carol down.
 
#53
So Batacoto what are your favourtie lines of hers.

When taking lessons from a pro are you getting taught bass or do you get taught to play in the style of the teacher?

I mean i know that every teacher is bias to there own style of playing but do you go to a pro to learn to play like they do. For example would you go to Steve Lawson to learn bass or to learn to play bass like he does?
 
#54
The only real dispute over an actual song is "Bernadette."
Click to expand...

What about "I was Made To Love Her", "Reach Out, I'll Be There", "Reflections" , "Back In My Arms Again", "You Can't Hurry Love", "Baby Love", I Can't Help Myself. (In case you doubt that she is claiming them I am reading those titles from a legal document in which she makes those claims) so, the controversy is not as simple as you portray it to be.

She believes that she recorded it because of the memories of the session
Click to expand...

What she believes is one issue what actually happened is apparently another matter.

I wasn't at the sessions, and neither were any of the people that are so adamantly putting Carol down.
Click to expand...

Does that group of people "putting Carol down" include the Funk Brothers who were on those session with Jamerson as were producers Hank Cosby and Holland Dozier Holland (Who signed affidavits to attest that it was Jamerson)? The Funks supported Jamerson completely. Does that include RNRHOF who gave credit to Jamerson and inducted him into their ranks as the first bassist inducted soley for his playing?

I understand your loyalty to your teacher but the facts would seem not to support it.

Bassland

http://bassland.net/jamerson.html

PS I am not angry, distress or bothered in anyway so if you have something of substance to say I am all ears.
 
#55
I have my own style and my own ideas. I have already played professionally in Chicago. I study bass from Carol Kaye to further my knowledge of the bass and hear unique ideas that expand my own concept of music. I study music with her, not style just as I studied music with Kenny Davis, not his style.
 
#56
I don't believe in blind loyalty. My statement was not made out of loyalty. My point is to not get caught up in the controversy so much so that you cannot appreciate a person's work. She was on thousands of recordings that are not the subject of controversy. I listen to her play in her living room, and the woman is BAD. My point is also that she did not claim any work with the consious objective of stealing something from someone...and again...none of us were at the studio during the motown era, so the cuts she's claiming may well be hers. They may well be someone else's, but the most likely reason for that would be the number of overdubs and versions that were being made at that time. There was much confusion regarding credits during this era. Carol is not the only one who is caught in this dilemna, she is just the only one singled out.
 
#59
i have a fender bass tape(PLAYING IN THE STLYE OF FENDER GREATS)and theres a little section devoted to her and her unique picking style,rumor has it she went to record w/ an artist(she was a very sought after session guitarist)and the bass player never showd up so she was asked to sit in on bass and never looked back. Her picking/muting technique is interesting but nothing special TO ME(thats my opinion,i respect her work but dont look up to it)she is known as the "FIRST LADY "of bass and thats good enough for me:D
ROCK ON CAROL !:bassist: :bassist:
 
#60
Actually there is no controversy anymore there are just her claims. I think the movie Standing In The Shadows Of Motown laid waste to any legitimacy with regards to the notion that anyone other than Jamerson played bass on the music in question and Carol is not mentioned once in that film.

There are however people such as yourself that believe what she claims for whatever reason. I have personally spoken to the producer of "I Was Made To Love Her" and that is enough for me.

She IS the only one to attack Jamerson's musical legacy and she is probably paying the price for it. You should ask yourself why isn't she in the RNRHOF with all the work she has done? Is it the male conspiracy I read so much about? LOL

I have no idea how old you are or how long you have played the bass but I was playing during the time those records were made.

Just like in the rest of the world, you see that bad things people say/do get more attention than anything else that person might have actually done that was good. No one gets up in court and says "but he was nice to his mother" as a defense for bank robbery...

One note, .you say that you did not want to get caught up in this controversy. It looks to me that by coming to talkbass and resurrecting a long dead thread, you stepped right in it. (last post before your first was 10-13-2001 07:39 AM before the merger of the threads)


I listen to her play in her living room, and the woman is BAD.
Click to expand...

Jaco, Pino, Marcus, Chuck, Babbitt (Babbit was even in the same zip code) are all bad but they did not claim to be the bassist on those records which leads me to ask what's your point?

As a matter of fact all the bassist mentioned except Jaco (and Carol) honored Jamerson by playing renditions of his work on a 2 CD set that accompanied SITSOM (the book). Where is Carol's homage to Jamerson's accomplishments? claiming to have played bass on Bernadette?

If you were a bassist in 1967, the mark of personal accomplishment was to even attempt to play the bassline from that song (no matter how badly, LOL). It was so different for it's time that we as bassist (I have yet to hear from a 1960's R&B bassist who feels otherwise) could almost not believe what we were hearing. Jamerson broke that kind of ground repeatedly throughout the 1960's and he has a special place in not only music history but American history because of it.

"in the spirit of a good debate...."

the ball's in your court...:bassist:
 
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