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Carol Kaye Threads (meerged)

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#141
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
No, this is not a girl, guy thing. I have just listened to Mary Wells doing My Guy and I know this is an Upright bass. . BL (Satie) is quoting Dr. Licks. Original thought is not accepted here in this thread. Every time I say anything I am accused of worshiping Carol or that I am into man bashing or its racial, which is not me or my feelings.
I wish a mod would merge these threads! ..:hmm:
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Understood. I was quite concerned after I posted that you might think I was aiming at you, and I assure you that is not the case.

After I read CK's inflammatory remarks here ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]), I drew the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, whether she played the parts in question or not, that she's pretty easy to dislike. That's not a crime, but it's certainly a shame to see her tarnish her own credibility in this way. She'll likely be remembered for her venom instead of her abilities.

EDIT: I notice that the remarks I'm referencing have been removed from Carole's page. Interesting, yes?
 
#142
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Well - she started as a guitarist and plays with a pick - but she has played some great grooves.
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Hey, I started also as a solo guitarist (wich I still from time to time), but I can assure you it doesn't effect my bassplaying!
I play with fingers though, but still, starting off as a guitarist doesn't have to effect your bassplaying and I really think it is a great thing if you know both instruments!

:p
 
#145
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1

Harsh comments are being made about her, how should she respond?:confused:
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Well - how about admitting she might be wrong in this particular case? Or that she's not really bothered as she played on so many great tracks anyway, that these few can hardly make any impact on her reputation....plus Jamerson got very little recognition and is dead, so why not let it go?

I honstly believe that people would think a lot better of her, if she said - I can't honestly remember all the details, but I acknowledge James Jamerson was a great player, so why should we all be arguing?
 
#147
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1


Would you..... Let it go if this were you we were talking about?
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I was just saying that people would think a lot better of her if she did. I've had bass tracks recorded and had them wiped off and replaced in the 80s - I could easily claim that it was me who played on them, but I must say that I always think it's simpler to tell the truth from the start or you will be caught out eventually.

If I had recorded a small fraction of the tracks she did I would be very happy, though - I can't imagine needing to dispute tracks when you have done so many - for a start it seems so unncessary and secondly you must start to doubt your own memory, when you have played on so many sessions/recordings?

Also - I'm pretty sure I coudl listen to a recording and tell if it was me or somebody else!
 
#148
besides Carole being a very good friend of mine.I could care less about the issue that is debated here.that aside take a listen to her wealth of contribution to the instrument.some of you guys were even influenced by her and didn't even know untill you read the credits or someone told you it was Carole Kaye.Carol is an awesome player and educator and a very beautiful person.I have had on many occasions the chance to ask her about the issue at hand,but why bother when I can simply be thankfull that we got what we have from her in this lifetime.fella's can we just respect each other and stop bashing Carole?(and yes I do respect your opinions)
 
#150
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
I believe Carol Kaye! :D
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So, on one side you have:

1. Kaye's bare assertion that she played on those particular recordings, with no supporting evidence.

On the other side you have:

2. The testimony of virtually every single person who had anything to do with those tracks (artists, producers, arrangers, engineers, songwriters) saying that Jamerson played them. Plus years of research by Allan Slutsky.

And you go for door #1. Guess there's none so blind as those who will not see.
 
#151
Originally posted by JAUQO III-X
besides Carole being a very good friend of mine.I could care less about the issue that is debated here.that aside take a listen to her wealth of contribution to the instrument.some of you guys were even influenced by her and didn't even know untill you read the credits or someone told you it was Carole Kaye.Carol is an awesome player and educator and a very beautiful person.I have had on many occasions the chance to ask her about the issue at hand,but why bother when I can simply be thankfull that we got what we have from her in this lifetime.fella's can we just respect each other and stop bashing Carole?(and yes I do respect your opinions)
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Personally, I appreciate and value her playing and her considerable contributions to the instrument we all love, both in recording and in education. I *don't* appreciate her taking credit for what the overwhelming evidence says was Jamerson's work. One doesn't change or excuse the other! I don't know her as a person, but that's not relevant. As for "bashing", consider that she probably would never have had a negative thing said about her here if she hadn't claimed work that seems not to be hers. Seems to me what's getting bashed here is Jamerson's legacy.
 
#152
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey

As for bashing, she would never have had a negative thing said about her here if she hadn't claimed work that seems not to be hers.
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That's right - so I was saying, if she just let this go - people would think nothing but good about her and praise her as a session musician.
 
#154
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
if my tracks were being claimed as someone elses, ("Allan Slutsky" is the so called expert...she was there) I would be upset too
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Then perhaps you can appreciate how Annie Jamerson feels.

It's bad enough that he didn't get the credit for 'em when he was alive.
 
#155
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
she was there:hmm:
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But you see, that's the point. According to the evidence of *everybody* else involved with those tracks, she *wasn't* there! You're begging the question by assuming the truth of the very thing that is in doubt. As for there being "much more to it," that doesn't seem likely to me. I can't see why a reasonable person would need more evidence, unless that person's attachment is more to a position than to the truth.
 
#156
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
Thousands of musicians already praise her as a studio Icon
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I have praised her for that myself, and I have mentioned her positively to people who claim that playing bass with a pick "suxx".

But so what? That's completely irrelevant to the question of whether she did those specific tracks. You seem to keep wanting to make this about running down Kaye's history, playing, or whatever. Please understand--again!--that this is not the issue. The issue is who played a couple dozen specific tracks.
 
#157
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
As for "bashing", consider that she probably would never have had a negative thing said about her here if she hadn't claimed work that seems not to be hers. Seems to me what's getting bashed here is Jamerson's legacy.
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Truth be told, I never knew who she was until I read that article about her trying to discredit Jamerson. This prompted me to research her a bit and find out what shes actually done. Shes a heck of good player and was one of those who Ive heard a million times and never knew it.

Putting playing abilities asside. (Because they are both great players and how well they play is not the issure here.) What do you honestly believe most people are gonna remember her for? A great session bassist or the woman who tried taking credit for work thats not hers? Maybe you older cats (and I say older with nothin but love) will remember her for both reasons. But to most players that were like me who heard her a million times and didnt know who she was, will think the later of the 2.

Perhaps if James Jamerson was still alive when she made these claims she would be spared some of the bashing that she is now getting.
 
#158
Originally posted by cassanova



What are you gonna remember her for? A great session bassist or the woman who tried taking credit for work thats not hers? Maybe you older cats (and I say older with nothin but love) will remember her for both reasons. But to most players that were like me who heard her a million times and didnt know who she was, will think the later of the 2.
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That's a good point. I'm one of the "older cats" (47 tomorrow). Until all this stuff came up, I thought of Kaye with nothing but respect, both for her playing and for her ability to make it as a woman on what was mostly considered a man's instrument in what was mostly a man's world. But this business of claiming Jamerson's tracks has made me think of her differently, and less favorably. I wish it weren't so.
 
#160
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
There are more articles to read other then Allan Slutsky's book or Movie...are you aware that neither one is sanctioned by Motown......its not liscensed by them....why is that????
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If there are more articles, then how about providing one?

Neither the book nor the movie need anybody's license or sanction. I don't know what Motown's position is, but unless you do, it proves absolutely nothing either way. Their "sanction" would not make it true; the absence of a sanction would not make it false. The issue, again, is EVIDENCE.

Hint: asking a question in a suggestive tone has no value as evidence.
 
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