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Celebrating by righting an old mistake

Balog

Balog

Supporting Member
Mar 19, 2009
1,961
1,552
Everett, WA
#1
A long time ago I bought and sold a lot of gear, always trying new stuff out. I got a full rig that was extremely well regarded at the time, and just hated it. Couldn’t get a sound I liked to save my life. I was disappointed and sold the amp, only to realize it was actually the cabs I couldn’t stand. Ever since I’ve wished I held onto that amp a bit longer to see if it was really as good as everyone says.

Now, roughly 12 years later and thanks to the magic of the Guitar Center used section, I’m celebrating getting a new job by fixing my mistake. In roughly 5-7 business days a lovely Genz Benz Streamliner 900 will be waiting for me at my PO box. I’ll finally get to do a side by side comparison between it and a Shuttle 9.2 through a cab I really like. I’m so excited! Can’t wait to post pics when it gets here, and finally see what all the fuss is about.
 
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#3
Hawk620 said:
Speakers are the "voice" of an amp. If you don't like the voice you may not like the amp.
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I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts? Another words if you take an Ampeg venture 700 watt head and a Mesa Boogies Subway WD800 head and play them both through a Fender bassman 610 cabinet, both heads will sound like the bassman cabinet? True or not quite?
 
#4
Yes, cabinet can make or break your sound. I use incredibly nice cabs and am never disappointed (Greenboy Fearless F112's - two of them) or a Bergantino Reference II 115. Amps matter but not as much anymore with modern tech.
 
#5
Cabs definitely make a difference with my Streamliner.
It sounded great through my Bergatino HD 112
but since built a fEarful 12/6, I'm never going back.


Cory rich40 said:
could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts?
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Heck no. A Streamliner is definitely not A Shuttle. Preamps matter. A lot.
 
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#7
Cory rich40 said:
I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts? Another words if you take an Ampeg venture 700 watt head and a Mesa Boogies Subway WD800 head and play them both through a Fender bassman 610 cabinet, both heads will sound like the bassman cabinet? True or not quite?
Click to expand...
Not even close to accurate when it comes to differently voiced heads, or even heads with different design approaches even if both are class D. Using your example, the WD-800 and Venture are very differently voiced and will sound quite different through the same cabinet.
 
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#9
Cory rich40 said:
I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts? Another words if you take an Ampeg venture 700 watt head and a Mesa Boogies Subway WD800 head and play them both through a Fender bassman 610 cabinet, both heads will sound like the bassman cabinet? True or not quite?
Click to expand...
Not really for most amps. The SM 9.2 and Steamliner 900 sound fairly different from each other.
 
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#11
HolmeBass said:
Not really for most amps. The SM 9.2 and Steamliner 900 sound fairly different from each other.
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Yeah I’m surprised to read some of these comments. Not disagreeing, but can firmly say it hasn’t been my experience. Same wattage/class heads sound distinctly different than one another. I guess maybe if you had a fundamentally almost unalterably voiced cab that could be less apparent? But any cabs I’ve played through.. the head is equal part of the tone. I’ve always consisted it about 50/50 head-cab tone ratio.
 
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#12
Cory rich40 said:
I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts?
Click to expand...

No, that's not true. The voicing of the amp very much matters to how it sounds through the same cabinet. I have 3 amps (2 class D, 1 class AB) that I use through the same cabinet and they are all very different from each other. Even with each set to it's optimally neutral (flat-ish) EQ, the amps are different because of things like frequency response, output topologies (class and output topology are not the same thing), etc. I usually don't try to set each amp "flat" when select it to use, so the voicings are even more pronounced because I'm not manipulating them to be something specific.
 
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#13
Cory rich40 said:
I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts? Another words if you take an Ampeg venture 700 watt head and a Mesa Boogies Subway WD800 head and play them both through a Fender bassman 610 cabinet, both heads will sound like the bassman cabinet? True or not quite?
Click to expand...
This is not my experience at all. I've got three different solid state heads and my cabinet sounds different with each head. No question about it.
 
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#14
I miss my Streamliner 900 - not sure why I sold it, I guess I was just a bit heavy on class D amps at the time, but it had a great, authoritative punchy low mid thing that I haven't really found any other micro head to do as well, and more than adequate power. The times that I used the Streamliner with my also long lost Bergantino 610 cabinet I thought that was one of the best sounding rock or old school R&B suited rigs I've ever had.
 
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#16
LakeEffect said:
Yeah I’m surprised to read some of these comments. Not disagreeing, but can firmly say it hasn’t been my experience. Same wattage/class heads sound distinctly different than one another. I guess maybe if you had a fundamentally almost unalterably voiced cab that could be less apparent? But any cabs I’ve played through.. the head is equal part of the tone. I’ve always consisted it about 50/50 head-cab tone ratio.
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It’s hard to say how much each contributes, because the amps are adjustable, but for the most part the cabinet is not.

But the amps do impart a quality that cannot be adjusted away with their EQ and gain settings, of that there’s no doubt.

For something even more different , try a Quilter amp, or an old TecAmp. Or an Ampeg amp.
 
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#17
Even if you bypassed the preamp each amp is different/. My buddy who is a synth, PA amp and mixer tech and knows class-d is currently debugging this Bergantino IP 310 issue with the .crossover, While we had it open, I asked him if we could wire it so I could use other amp in. So just the power section of an AI Claris, Jay Ganz, and a Trickfish and the streamliner. They sound all different . We use the same Alembic Preamp and the SL was the most growly and also more lowned. AI had the most rolled highs. Trickfish felt the most punchy but somehow had dip in the mids ever so slightly,. I wish I had a Brigantine head. The built in IP power amp of course was the best, balnced of punch, lowend and highs. Jay Ganz probably the mpst flattering flat but seems you have to keep the volume a lot for it to become alive. Jay always told me to keep the volume past 2 to get rid of the hiss but a tube preamp like the Alembic will have a different tone depending on how you set the gain. At gigging volumes probably does not matter. We were playing this at high call the police volumes. Finally heard that StreamLiner power tube soft clipping / grind - just like all tube amp. Grab one if you see. Get it factory serviced and you got yourself a great amp to last a while
 
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#18
Cory rich40 said:
I’ve read many times that the cabinet is what you are hearing. Out of curiosity, aside from fully tube heads, could it be argued that all class D, or solid state heads are essentially the same if you compare heads with the same amount of watts? Another words if you take an Ampeg venture 700 watt head and a Mesa Boogies Subway WD800 head and play them both through a Fender bassman 610 cabinet, both heads will sound like the bassman cabinet? True or not quite?
Click to expand...

That has not been my experience personally.
 
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#20
agedhorse said:
The sound of a rig depends on the voicing of BOTH the head AND the cabinet.
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I think the reason the search for tone is such a never ending quest for people is because all of the variables matter, and they all interact with each other significantly. Bass, pickup style and location and number, values for the volume/tone cap and pot, strings, amp, cab, room, technique. Add in how subjective the descriptive terms we have are and how widely everyone’s hearing and perception vary and it’s honestly amazing we can even kinda sorta agree on.
 
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