Chances are You're not that Special!

[groooooove]

i always tell my students that the average gig for working musician is gonna be around 2 hours of music. sometimes more, sometimes less.

my reading is pretty good. i can learn 2 hours of music in around a half hour, often less- depending on the stuff. assuming just occasional hits, not too many unison lines and riffs, ext.

without reading, learning 2 hours of music can take... well... will it all be memorized in 2 runthroughs? 4 hours? if your really good and have exceptional memory?

its a time saver, and has a thousand other benefits.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

i always tell my students that the average gig for working musician is gonna be around 2 hours of music. sometimes more, sometimes less.

my reading is pretty good. i can learn 2 hours of music in around a half hour, often less- depending on the stuff. assuming just occasional hits, not too many unison lines and riffs, ext.

without reading, learning 2 hours of music can take... well... will it all be memorized in 2 runthroughs? 4 hours? if your really good and have exceptional memory?

its a time saver, and has a thousand other benefits.

That reminds me of a Marcus Miller quote where he said he would be down the street playing the next gig while the ear player is still getting some to him the part.

 

[TripleDouble]

Reading is a nice skill to have for learning stuff. I can't read well enough to play theatre gigs, but can pick up a Real Book and bumble through a melody, which has been super helpful in developing a vocabulary. I've had a few charts handed to me in studios too, but was always given a few minutes to practice, it wasn't like ye olden days where the first mistake got a "GET OUT, NEXT GUY!!!!". Then again, I'm not a first call NYC session dude either...crap, I may not be special.

 

[bassbully]

I agree with you about reading when young or getting started it's the true way to learn. But without opening a huge can o' mess I have here in the past will say its not the way for all. Its up to you and your individual learning level and skills.
I have played with very talented people who can read and theory trained and those who cant read a note. It makes no difference to me if you can read or not.

For me music has to be organic and I need the freedom of the unknown and happy mistakes to learn. If a book of music was put in front of me I would put down my bass, grab my fishing rod and head out the door to the lake. Not this cat.

 

[socialleper]

Chances are music notation reading won't make you special either.

"The universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed."

 

[Altitude]

Reading only makes you better.

+1.

Not reading puts you at a disadvantage compared to the thousands of other guys who also want to make a career out of playing, and who do read. Decide accordingly.

 

[Blackjac97]

I've been taking lessons again since May, and I am about to start working out of the book, Patterns for Jazz. This means I have to really confront reading, one of my weak points.

All I can say to newbies is do not be seduced by the stories of bassists like Pino Pallidino and Andrew Gouche, who have had great careers despite not reading. Trust me, you are probably not that good. Learn to read!

I disagree. Entirely.

I think a lot of people are that special and and probably some, or many, are more special. I think they just don't have the good fortune that the 1% of musicians who get famous have. Success is not a measure of musical talent. There might be a bass player who can play anything in the world after hearing it just once, but can't read a single note, and that person just happens to enjoy basket weaving more so they don't share their bass talent with anyone.

"Special" is a subjective term.

I, like you, have the opinion that reading music is an excellent, musicianship building skill to possess. But, that's an opinion, not a fact, and it's certainly not necessary in order to obtain the same success that the players you mentioned have obtained.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I disagree. Entirely.

I think a lot of people are that special and and probably some, or many, are more special. I think they just don't have the good fortune that the 1% of musicians who get famous have. Success is not a measure of musical talent. There might be a bass player who can play anything in the world after hearing it just once, but can't read a single note, and that person just happens to enjoy basket weaving more so they don't share their bass talent with anyone.

"Special" is a subjective term.

I, like you, have the opinion that reading music is an excellent, musicianship building skill to possess. But, that's an opinion, not a fact, and it's certainly not necessary in order to obtain the same success that the players you mentioned have obtained.

If Gouche or Pallidino level talent is very common, cool.

 

[Blackjac97]

If Gouche or Pallidino level talent is very common, cool.

Not saying it's common or isn't. I know I have witnessed plenty of talent over the years that I would consider to be just as talented. My main point is that I believe you can't judge talent on success alone.

 

[jmac]

I learned to read before elementary school. Are all of you really illiterate? lol.

 

[japhy4529]

Not real good at sight reading myself but just learning to read really helped a whole lot in learning rhythms and making accurate counts. Even if you look at a piece of music and only play one note but cop the rhythm throughout the sheet it makes reading the notes easier as you go on. Know the rhythm and you can focus more on the notes as you go along. Trying to do both at the same time while learning is frustrating and multitasking like that is just a way to fail at more than one thing at a time.

I believe a famous bassist (who reads) made a very similar comment about rhythms being everything (or mostly so) with reading. Rhythm is everything or something along those lines was the quote.

 

[Blackjac97]

If Gouche or Pallidino level talent is very common, cool.

Just to give an example of what I'm getting at, Pete Wentz is probably a more commercially successful bass player than Pino. People who aren't even musicians and haven't listened to anything but the radio know who he is and what he does. But, who do you think would win in a cutting contest? That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Not saying it's common or isn't. I know I have witnessed plenty of talent over the years that I would consider to be just as talented. My main point is that I believe you can't judge talent on success alone.

I never said success equaled talent. I said don't assume you can learn by ear as well as your heroes. I don't think reading will turn me into Will Lee or Marcus Miller.

 

[brianrost]

I've lost out on some good gigs because I couldn't read. It wasn't that it was too complicated for me to play, I just couldn't read.

Same here...losing those gigs hurt!

I can read for practice/study but not sight read at tempo.

 

[Blackjac97]

who have had great careers despite not reading

I never said success equaled talent.

Seems contradicting, but I won't press the issue.

I said don't assume you can learn by ear as well as your heroes. I don't think reading will turn me into Will Lee or Marcus Miller.

And, I still disagree. I could play entire Green Day albums by ear before I learned how to read. In all of my college auditions, the ear training part was always easiest. Anybody can have a stellar ear if they put their mind to it. You can be just as good as any of your idols at whatever they do if you work hard enough.

 

[AltGrendel]

It does get better with time but you still have to put some time into it. If I quit reading for a while and then get thrown a chart, I can get thrown if it's got anything complex in it, and I've been doing it for 40 years.

Did I just say 40 years?

Yes, yes you did.

That means you've been sight reading longer than 85% of the TB members have been alive.

 

[japhy4529]

The ability to sight read got me my gig playing for 70k at NFL games. It has never been an issue when auditioning or playing with anyone else. Nobody has said. "You can read music? You're fired." Just because some can get away with not reading, I wouldn't recommend not learning. It will never hurt you and can only help.

Now, I'll preface this by saying that my time has passed to be a professional musician. I'm in my mid-40's with a full time job and family. Music is a hobby for me and I'm okay with that. That said, while I'm not currently in a band, I play my bass at home almost every night and I love it. As to the comment earlier around where one can read or not and there not being any middle ground, that's nonsense. Just as there are various levels of adult reading comprehension (with a book) there are also varying levels of musical notation comprehension and speed. From my limited reading-knowledge perspective the main thing once you get past note and rhythm recognition is the speed by which this knowledge transfers to accurately playing the passages at the correct tempo! At this point, I can sit down and look at sheet music and say "G", D", "F#", etc. and know the basic rhythms but only at a snail's pace. I don't practice reading enough to get it down completely (although I believe I could if I devoted more time to the exercise).

Anyway, I will say that I've met some musicians who were monster plays and learned the instrument and learned to read simultaneously. The results were not so good in my experience. They couldn't improvise worth a darn. Now that's just my limited experience. I mostly played in rock bands growing up and most of my fellow musicians couldn't read to save their lives. Of course, I realize there are many cats out there (particularly jazz musicians) who can read and improvise all day long.

I think ideal situation for young bassists just starting out would be to learn the instrument by ear first for perhaps just the first year or two and then learn to read music at that point, after they've had a chance to develop their ear a bit. Just my $.02.

 

[japhy4529]

I doubt if anyone who is serious about developing a career in music is spending a whole lot of time reading online boards.

...SNIP

I'll have to disagree with you on this one point. Hello? Millennial generation?! Of course many of them are spending time online (and likely many of them peruse online boards such as TB or similar outlets).

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Now, I'll preface this by saying that my time has passed to be a professional musician. I'm in my mid-40's with a full time job and family. Music is a hobby for me and I'm okay with that. That said, while I'm not currently in a band, I play my bass at home almost every night and I love it. As to the comment earlier around where one can read or not and there not being any middle ground, that's nonsense. Just as there are various levels of adult reading comprehension (with a book) there are also varying levels of musical notation comprehension and speed. From my limited reading-knowledge perspective the main thing once you get past note and rhythm recognition is the speed by which this knowledge transfers to accurately playing the passages at the correct tempo! At this point, I can sit down and look at sheet music and say "G", D", "F#", etc. and know the basic rhythms but only at a snail's pace. I don't practice reading enough to get it down completely (although I believe I could if I devoted more time to the exercise).

Anyway, I will say that I've met some musicians who were monster plays and learned the instrument and learned to read simultaneously. The results were not so good in my experience. They couldn't improvise worth a darn. Now that's just my limited experience. I mostly played in rock bands growing up and most of my fellow musicians couldn't read to save their lives. Of course, I realize there are many cats out there (particularly jazz musicians) who can read and improvise all day long.

I think ideal situation for young bassists just starting out would be to learn the instrument by ear first for perhaps just the first year or two and then learn to read music at that point, after they've had a chance to develop their ear a bit. Just my $.02.

You pretty much described the Suzuki method.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'll have to disagree with you on this one point. Hello? Millennial generation?! Of course many of them are spending time online (and likely many of them peruse online boards such as TB or similar outlets).

If you are building a career, you are not using the Internet to debate me about reading music unless you are trying to be reverse Jeff Berlin.