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Chances are You're not that Special!

#61
I am classically trained and read music well on a variety of instruments...bass is not one of those. It is a skill that I am working to improve and one that is immeasurably helpful. If I did not have that training, I am convinced my playing would not be as "good" as it is.

It may be tough but it is worth it and after enough years of practicing it, your note memory becomes more ingrained to the point it no longer takes daily reading or sight-reading practice to maintain the basic skill. It still can get rusty but will remain mostly in the memory banks.
 
#64
I'm happy!

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#66
Dr. Cheese said:
I've been taking lessons again since May, and I am about to start working out of the book, Patterns for Jazz. This means I have to really confront reading, one of my weak points.

All I can say to newbies is do not be seduced by the stories of bassists like Pino Pallidino and Andrew Gouche, who have had great careers despite not reading. Trust me, you are probably not that good. Learn to read!
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Learning to read music has nothing to do the ability to play. The vast majority of successful musicians do not read music nor understand theory. Learning to read has the potential to open up more opportunities but having the ability to play well is much more important.
 
#68
MYLOWFREQ said:
If you can't read music, you can:

- Play in your bedroom.
- Play in the subway.
- Play with bands at bars/clubs who don't care if you can read or not.

If you can read music, you can do all of the above +:

- Be a session musician.
- Play at Broadway shows.
- Play at TV shows.
- Play for soundtracks.
- Play with any band anywhere that provides notation such as playing on cruise ships, etc.
- Give lessons.

I think reading is not necessary, but it opens a lot of doors, and makes you a better musician overall. I personally don't believe in such a thing like "I can read a little". What does that mean? Reading notation is not any different than reading a book. You can either read or not. If you're in a recording session for instance and tell them you can read, they would expect you to read the stuff they hand you, period. For all of these reasons, I say no "I can't read music" even though I can tell what the notes are, what the key is etc. Sad but true, but it's never late to learn how to read imo.
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To be fair, it helps to do session work, if you can read, but it's not essential, I don't work any more, but I did a few sessions in my day, also the guys I know who get regular (ish) work, tell me that they are asked to read less and less these days, as fewer producers can read. Also I have a couple of students and give occasional classes at a high school, with very limited reading ability.

There are also different levels of reading, just ask any high school English teacher. There is being able to recognise words in a sentence, to being able to read a novel, to being able to understand complex literary devices, that provide subtext and deeper meaning.

And your Wright, music is the same. My music reading level is around "The ball is red." Level, but through listening, disco using, making my own notes and reflections, I can read the novel, and understand the broader context.

Reading is a very useful tools, and essential to do shows, boats, corporate gigs, orchestra work, and covers! But you can get buy without it.

I think many people confuse reading with knowledge and theory. PINO may not read music, but you can bet your ass that he knows all about chords, scales, harmonic structure, rhythmic and temporal patterns and changes, he has technique, he understands dynamics, and articulation, among other aspects of the theory of music.
 
#69
Kmonk said:
Learning to read music has nothing to do the ability to play. The vast majority of successful musicians do not read music nor understand theory. Learning to read has the potential to open up more opportunities but having the ability to play well is much more important.
Click to expand...

Reading will help me to do what I want to do, and reading is commonly part and parcel of gaining musical knowledge.
 
#70
jay tay said:
To be fair, it helps to do session work, if you can read, but it's not essential, I don't work any more, but I did a few sessions in my day, also the guys I know who get regular (ish) work, tell me that they are asked to read less and less these days, as fewer producers can read. Also I have a couple of students and give occasional classes at a high school, with very limited reading ability.

There are also different levels of reading, just ask any high school English teacher. There is being able to recognise words in a sentence, to being able to read a novel, to being able to understand complex literary devices, that provide subtext and deeper meaning.

And your Wright, music is the same. My music reading level is around "The ball is red." Level, but through listening, disco using, making my own notes and reflections, I can read the novel, and understand the broader context.

Reading is a very useful tools, and essential to do shows, boats, corporate gigs, orchestra work, and covers! But you can get buy without it.

I think many people confuse reading with knowledge and theory. PINO may not read music, but you can bet your ass that he knows all about chords, scales, harmonic structure, rhythmic and temporal patterns and changes, he has technique, he understands dynamics, and articulation, among other aspects of the theory of music.
Click to expand...

My point was that truly great players will succeed whether they can read or not. Most of us are not great players. We may be good, often very good, but few of us are truly great.
 
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#72
Dr. Cheese said:
My point was that truly great players will succeed whether they can read or not. Most of us are not great players. We may be good, often very good, but few of us are truly great.
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Absolutely, the reason they are so great, is that we are not! And I for one wish my reading chops were better back in the day, as I would have loved to do shows, and boats just for the experience of it.

I do truly believe that just because we play with 4 strings (4/5/6 ect) doesn't mean that we can't have more strings to our bow, and reading is certainly a good string to have on your bow. My comments were specifically about the comment that I quoted regarding what you can and can't do without reading, and also some of the more general comments on the thread wher some people seemed to be confused between reading and theory.

This is an interesting thread, and it's good to see wider opinion on the matter.

You can scrape buy without reading but it is bloody hard work, and you better have a lot of other elements regarding knowledge/ understanding/ and playing down in order to compensate.
 
#73
Dr. Cheese said:
I've been taking lessons again since May, and I am about to start working out of the book, Patterns for Jazz. This means I have to really confront reading, one of my weak points.

All I can say to newbies is do not be seduced by the stories of bassists like Pino Pallidino and Andrew Gouche, who have had great careers despite not reading. Trust me, you are probably not that good. Learn to read!
Click to expand...
What do those things have to do with each other?
 
#75
Fretless1! said:
I've lost out on some good gigs because I couldn't read. It wasn't that it was too complicated for me to play, I just couldn't read.
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I understand that---- I get easy gigs because I can read--- not tough parts (Polka Bands)--- but you have to read. The songs often change key, have stops, cuts and accents that come out of nowhere. No rehearsal--- show up and play the gig, just like a pit job.
Not all polkas are oompa, 1-5. Check out some recordings by the Connecticut Twins or Walter Procanyn.
 
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#76
Dr. Cheese said:
My point is that most of us need to take advantage of every avenue of knowledge to be good. Great players will often be great despite "deficiencies."
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+1

But you will never convince the 'ignorance is good' crowd. Music is one of the few areas that people will claim that ignorance isn't a hinderance; some will claim it's a benefit.
 
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#77
Dr. Cheese said:
My point was that truly great players will succeed whether they can read or not. Most of us are not great players. We may be good, often very good, but few of us are truly great.
Click to expand...

I've bought a few beers for great players over the years who were in the audience on a Saturday night. After chatting with them for 15 minutes, had to pick up my bass and get back to work (I'm not great).
 
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#78
Chances are You're Not that Special

Amen, brother. I came to that conclusion in my late 30's, realizing that almost everything about my life was average at best. Yet when I was in my teens and twenties I acted as though I would someday rule the world. There's simply no substitute for the enthusiasm and foolishness of youth. Nevertheless, I still enjoy playing below average music to bar patrons with an above average blood alcohol level.
 
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#79
SteveHeissner said:
Chances are You're Not that Special

Amen, brother. I came to that conclusion in my late 30's, realizing that almost everything about my life was average at best. Yet when I was in my teens and twenties I acted as though I would someday rule the world. There's simply no substitute for the enthusiasm and foolishness of youth. Nevertheless, I still enjoy playing below average music to bar patrons with an above average blood alcohol level.
Click to expand...

"Youth is wasted on the young"
 
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#80
Dr. Cheese said:
I am about to start working out of the book, Patterns for Jazz. This means I have to really confront reading, one of my weak points.
Click to expand...

If reading is your weak point, just remember, take it slow, first one letter at a time, then words and sentences... But don't forget the fun, look at the pictures too, and you may wanna check out music notation that's often included in such books! :D

All kidding aside, I think it's great you're learning to read. I never found the use for it, as my ambitions don't go that far, but I sure wish I stuck to it when I was learning piano as a kid... It's just a useful skill!
 

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