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cheap bass=no respect

#141
So this is the conclusion I have come too after reading this thread. Thank you all by the way for the responses.

I think maybe I don't look at bass playing like you guys. To me its fun, thats it. Its the second most fun thing you can do with your clothes on. The first being drive a finely tuned sports car around a track at the edge of control. I love practicing bass for hours and I love gigging and all of that. I think alot of you guys take it far more seriously then I. Some of you are talking about that by the the early 20s someone should have enough money saved to buy a mid to high end rig and all that, but here I sit in my early/mid 20s and that is the last thing from my mind. Sure I want to sound good and I think I do that with the three basses I have that I mention (my squire as my main bass), and my Fender 400 pro combo and Ampeg 18. However at this point I am not saving money to get a megaexpensive bass or rig. I am saving money to pay off my student loans and secure a nice financial future for me since a big move away from home is likely in my near future. I also will probably be needing a new daily driver car in the next year so that is on my mind. So like I said upgrading my rig which to me would be only to impress fellow musicians, at this point is the last thing I am thinking about. maybe this is because I don't see music as a life or death thing. I see it as a really fun thing I get to do with my friends in my band on weekends and ocasionally through the week. Sure it would be great to go out on the road become hugely famous and rich but I am perfectly happy if I just get to play once a week with my buddies. Actually to me my favorite part is just playing at home. I just like practicing and challenging myself. Maybe there is just something different in me then you guys that think fancy stuff is important and that guy that dissed me for playing a squier. I don't know.
 
#142
All this label mania is ridiculous. Music is NOT about how much money you spend!

I think maybe what I'll do is cover up/remove all logos from my stuff. They you'll have to judge me by the music , not the equipment I'm playing.(which is the ONLY test that matters).
 
#143
I have to laugh when I read this thread. It reminds of a something that happened to me. I took my Squier Strat into L&M to get the neck replaced. When I picked it up, I was pleased with the work they put into it. Very nice. However, the sales guy who was helping me out started to laugh when I asked how much to replace the pickups in it. He said that I was crazy to consider such a thing on a Squier. So in a very loud voice I said "Look *sshole, it may be a Squier but its my guitar. Is that OK with you?" The manager came over answered my questions and helped with my guitar. That guy didn't last long after that.

Like so many have mentioned already, I have seen excellent musicians playing gear of varying quality. I don't care what they play as long as they make me listen or make my feet move.

Dan
 
#144
If someone has an expensive bass (over $1200), I expect them to have good chops to go with it. If they don't, I have petty and jealous thoughts, like "gee I wish I too had money to blow on cool stuff I don't really know how to use." Those thoughts say more about me and my issues with wealth and conspicuous consumption than they do about the person playing. I would never share my jealous thoughts with this person.

If someone has a cheap bass, I don't judge them negatively. There are a lot of very good yet inexpensive basses out there nowadays. Of course it's nice if they have good chops, but my expectations are not high like they are with the expensive bass people.

I jammed with an acoustic guitarist at a party last year and he had put a piece of tape over the logo on his guitar. It sounded good, but I'm not an expert on acoustic headstock shapes and couldn't figure out what it might be. It shouldn't matter to me but it did so I finally asked him and he told me it's a Guild. Somehow it is much cooler to put tape over an expensive logo than it is to put it over a cheap logo. Tape on expensive logo says "I'm above brand names, it's all about sound" whereas tape over cheap logo says "I'm ashamed of my cheap logo but just shut up and listen because it really does sound good."
 
#145
christle said:
I have to laugh when I read this thread. It reminds of a something that happened to me. I took my Squier Strat into L&M to get the neck replaced. When I picked it up, I was pleased with the work they put into it. Very nice. However, the sales guy who was helping me out started to laugh when I asked how much to replace the pickups in it...
Click to expand...
I'm working very hard to master the bass guitar, and I'm doing it on a US-made Peavy Foundation 5-string that was bought used - and a little scuffed-up - for about $150.

I love this bass. One thing that perplexes me - and shames me a little - is that it seems that can't play any other bass very well!

I'm able to get some great sounds out of it, with a few problems (mainly with the B-string), but I've become so attached to this bass, that I'm thinking of spending my 'bass money' (as opposed to 'amp' or 'effects' money or whatever) on fixing-up this one. She's been my old-faithful!

Joe
 
#146
Intrestingly, on the subject of covering up the name on eqiuptment a fairly well known blues musician I met covered up the name on all his gear except his signature guitar and I asked him why. He said "other then giving me this guitar the companies on that equiptment have never done anything for me so why should I promote them." I thought that was a very interesting outlook.
 
#147
Most of the posts here are coming at this the wrong way.

I play bass as a hobby and not all that well. I do it because I like it and it relaxes me.
I would kill to have talent. I make my money in a non musical occupation, and can afford some really nice instruments. I understand bass enough to appreciate good instruments and good players. Really nice instruments I can buy, I can't buy talent. So you talanted players out there with OK instruments, don't worry about not having a really nice instrument.
Think of the people in the audience with nice instuments who are envious of your talent.
 
#148
WickdMOnkey, you really have my respect. It seems you really have your head on straight and you are enjoying music but you have not let yourself get wrapped up in superficial matters like what kind of bass or rig you own. You are clearly happy with what you have and you should be grateful you feel that way. Far too many people, myself included are never really satisfied with what they have and they are constantly buying, selling trading, ordering new gear.

I often have problems with the way we discuss instruments on this site. First of all, instrument under $1,000 are usually described as budget or bargain instruments as if $1,000 were some small amount of change. In most parts of the country, $1,000 would pay the rent on a pretty nice house or a swant apartment. Even in New York or San Francisco, $1,000 will get you a decent apartment for one month. $1,000 is also enough to make two car payments on really nice new car ($30,000+) depending on your financing. Somebody who has invested $3,000-5,000 in instruments and amps, has easily spent the equivalent of 10-15% of an annual salary for the average American. Unless a person is a financially successful gigging musician, this is a very expensive luxury. Of course adults can do what they want with their money, but the more I look at things, the more I feel comfortable staying in low end of things.
 
#149
Dr. Cheese said:
WickdMOnkey, you really have my respect. It seems you really have your head on straight and you are enjoying music but you have not let yourself get wrapped up in superficial matters like what kind of bass or rig you own. You are clearly happy with what you have and you should be grateful you feel that way. Far too many people, myself included are never really satisfied with what they have and they are constantly buying, selling trading, ordering new gear.

I often have problems with the way we discuss instruments on this site. First of all, instrument under $1,000 are usually described as budget or bargain instruments as if $1,000 were some small amount of change. In most parts of the country, $1,000 would pay the rent on a pretty nice house or a swant apartment. Even in New York or San Francisco, $1,000 will get you a decent apartment for one month. $1,000 is also enough to make two car payments on really nice new car ($30,000+) depending on your financing. Somebody who has invested $3,000-5,000 in instruments and amps, has easily spent the equivalent of 10-15% of an annual salary for the average American. Unless a person is a financially successful gigging musician, this is a very expensive luxury. Of course adults can do what they want with their money, but the more I look at things, the more I feel comfortable staying in low end of things.
Click to expand...

Then of course there are people who are very satisfied with their gear who still buy more. Maybe they just appreciate good gear. I seriously doubt JT is dissatified with his basses:D

:hmm:

I don't recall anyone calling a $1000 bass a "budget" bass. That would be a mid-level bass because it's between what most people would call a budget instrument (less than $500) and expensive (maybe $1500 and up).

I've called a $1000 instrument a bargain (the F Bass BN6 I just got for example), based on what it's worth vs. what it sold for. I'd never call the BN6 a budget bass.

As far as comparing what someone invest in gear vs. annual salary... the annual salary happens in one year, the investment may take far longer.

As far as the financially successful gigging musician thing, there are so many exceptions to that I'm not sure what the point of saying it was. You could be a financially successful garbage truck owner and a $1000 bass would hardly be a luxury.

And $1000 will get a decent apartment in NY or SF? I would've thought both places would be more expensive than were I live and that's tough to find here. Then again, who knows what "decent" means?;)
 
#150
Grown people can do whatever they want with their own money. I'm sure there are people who are satisfied with their gear who want more, but I suspect that most who get more gear are not really satisfied with it for whatever reason. I said that I respected WickdMOnkey because he clearly stated what he wanted out of music and what he was willing to invest in it. I respect people who know what they want and go in the opposite direction. What I am concerned about is people who may feel pressured to get gear for what are basically non-musical reason. In other words, people who get swept up in name brands or perception instead of need and performance. What I am encouraging fellow bassists to do is to take an honest look at your rig and ask yourself if it meets your needs. If it does, be grateful and be content. In a world where we are constantly being bombarded with advertising, contentment can be almost counterintuitive. If our needs are being met and you still want something else, do it on your schedule, don't feel pressured by what you see or read about.
The same is true if you look things over and you see if needs are not being met, analyze, see what you need and set about working to improve your setup.

The bottom line is that I respect other people and their choices. If you want a large collection of high end gear, more power to you. I just want everyone to do what is good for them and enjoy the bass.

To put things another way, I had a friend who put off taking up the bass for many years because when he was young, he couldn't afford a MIA P-bass and a Ampeg amp. I asked him why he didn't just get any old bass and a cheap amp and start playing. He just had to have what he saw the guys on TV or at club playing. His attitude was really sad to me because I know from experience that a cheap little bass and rig can get you into the game and take you a long ways until you can do better, if you so desire. It is a shame whenever someone lets brand names get in the way of the joy of music.
 
#151
I have to admit, I am turning into a bit of a collector and have more basses than I actually need. I almost have a bass for every ocasion ( though all you need is one) and enjoy playing some of them according to the style of music that we'll be jamming.
Years ago when I was young I had a Hondo and a Memphis bass because it was what I could afford. I wasn't exactly thrilled with the way they played ( always going out of tune, necks were a little twisted) but I was happy I had something to play on and never worried about not having a Fender or whatever.
As the years went by I was able to purchase what I thought were better quality instruments ( based on the name), but soon I realized that some of the basses I used to own were just fine if not more fun to play than the expensive ones.
The basses I collect now days are based strictly on their playability and not the name. I recently purchased an Ibanez Roadstar from the eighties and love it ( a steal at 140.00). I am also in the process of buying a new Fender Deluxe precision.
I guess collecting basses is one way I enjoy them because I don't have the time right now, and because I can.
:D
 
#152
Blazer said:
Kim Deal of the Pixies played most of her Basslines on a cheap Aria Pro 2 Cardinal Bass but when the Pixies entered the studio to record "Surfer rosa" the producer saw her bass and said "No way I'm gonna record the sound of that piece of firewood."
Click to expand...

well, if it was anything like the Aria Pro II I had as my first bass, the producer was probably right to do that - mine was a piece of crap :)


I'll go slightly against the grain here and say that when I see musicians with cheap gear (I don't mean MIM Fenders or Highway 1's instead of Sadowsky's, but really low end equipment) I assume that there's a chance that they're maybe possibly not very good yet, because it's likely this is their first bass or something...

I would make the assumption that a musician who has the respect for their musicianship to put in the years practicing would think they owed it to themselves to spend more than $200 or so on a bass

but I wouldn't ever dis anyone for it, i'd listen to them play first, because like people here have said, some cheap basses can sound great... but that first impression: "oh they're perhaps a newbie".. I must admit to that.. sorry :)
 
#156
Dr. Cheese said:
Grown people can do whatever they want with their own money. I'm sure there are people who are satisfied with their gear who want more, but I suspect that most who get more gear are not really satisfied with it for whatever reason. I said that I respected WickdMOnkey because he clearly stated what he wanted out of music and what he was willing to invest in it. I respect people who know what they want and go in the opposite direction. What I am concerned about is people who may feel pressured to get gear for what are basically non-musical reason. In other words, people who get swept up in name brands or perception instead of need and performance. What I am encouraging fellow bassists to do is to take an honest look at your rig and ask yourself if it meets your needs. If it does, be grateful and be content. In a world where we are constantly being bombarded with advertising, contentment can be almost counterintuitive. If our needs are being met and you still want something else, do it on your schedule, don't feel pressured by what you see or read about.
The same is true if you look things over and you see if needs are not being met, analyze, see what you need and set about working to improve your setup.

The bottom line is that I respect other people and their choices. If you want a large collection of high end gear, more power to you. I just want everyone to do what is good for them and enjoy the bass.

To put things another way, I had a friend who put off taking up the bass for many years because when he was young, he couldn't afford a MIA P-bass and a Ampeg amp. I asked him why he didn't just get any old bass and a cheap amp and start playing. He just had to have what he saw the guys on TV or at club playing. His attitude was really sad to me because I know from experience that a cheap little bass and rig can get you into the game and take you a long ways until you can do better, if you so desire. It is a shame whenever someone lets brand names get in the way of the joy of music.
Click to expand...

That is sad. OTOH if he really wanted to play he would've played.

Also, on the contentment tip... people still look for fault with their gear much faster than fault with themselves... I doubt that'll change anytime soon:)
 
#157
Gear definitely doesn't make the player. But let's be honest, if we see a guy who's playing a POS bass (according to your own personal preference) then you may not respect him. I try to reserve judgement until I hear him play and if he can hold down a solid groove then he's OK in my books.

The worst is the opposite, you got some punk who's daddy bought him a custom made (insert your fav brand here) with a 1000 watt head and an 8x10 who's just suckin the place up cause he can't keep in time or in tune and the groove just doesn't exist. This person get's no respect in my books. But I'm a little harsh I guess.
 
#158
Dr Cheese*, you are making more and more sense. Back in my motorcycle racing youth, it was called "run what ya brung." In other words, money ain't no 'scuse. It was what you did with what you had (and, no, I didn't dazzle anybody...). Playing bass enriches your life. Think about it.
_______
* Cheese is good. Cheese is life. If you don't agree, try some Roquefort on Wheat Thins. Like Jamie Jamerson on JB.
 
#159
As you guys might guess, I'm posting on this alot because the topic hits close to home for me. When I first started out, my Mom gave me an inexpensive no name Korean bass back when such a bass was pretty crummy. I also had an inexpensive Univox amp with a 15" speaker that was actually very good for the money. Times were pretty tight and I was grateful for what I had. As soon as I got a decent little job, I bought a Rickenbacker 4000 (single pup) which I kept for eight years. By the mid 1980's, I was in grad school and I had a pretty steady income, so I began to go through a bunch of basses. This was mainly because I love basses but I was always seeing a new one so I would switch up from time to time. Some times I kept two or three, but often I only had one. Once I finished school, I went through a series of even more high end basses like Steinbergers, two Alembics, a Ken Smith, a Roscoe, USA Spector five, two Moduli Quantums, a Musicman Sabre, two Stingray Fives, Yamaha TRB 6, and several others.

Once I got married and I had a child and house and a wife to look after, I had to shed some gear. One time, I let go of Modulus Quantum five and picked up a Yamaha BB404! My point is that I would be a liar if I said that I didn't miss my high end gear, but I am happy to say that I love playing just as much and my playing is at least as good as it has always been (I play funk, rock, and some Black gospel, plus some light jazz, I can solo, but I'm not shredder but I am a decent slapper.)

One of the good things about my experience is that although I still love high end basses, I am happy to say that even very cheap basses like Squire Precision Bass Specials, are often very well made and sound great. My current bass, a Peavey USA Millennium Five cost me a bit over $700 new and it sounds as good as my old Musicman basses, and better than my old Roscoe (not bright enough for me.)

After my daughter gets older and we move into a new house, I will probably be like some of the guys at TB who have two or Sadowskys or whatever, or I might have two Skylines and a Tribute! Either way, I'll enjoy my basses and my music.
 
#160
I'm in the "If it plays good, sounds good, and feels good....it is good" school.

I dumped a Series II Alembic in the 80's because it SUCKED live(thin wobbly neck, mike-cable tether to the Alembic-box, etc). Sitting down it sounded great. At that time we were in the 3 nights x 4 hours mode for a few years. I stuck with T-Birds because they "felt" right and sounded right and worked for what we were doing(rock/blues).

Do I practice what I preached above? My current basses are a Steinberger XL2A, Gibson TB, Epi Explorer, ROGUE 5 string, and white BRICE FB-1(T-bird clone for $199 I don't need to worry about). The Brice, Rogue, and Epi are my "live" AND FUN basses. I also gave my daughter a Daisy Rock butterfly bass for Christmas after I went to a store, tried the heart-shaped one through an amp, and was not disappointed. I may rent this one from her just to surprise some folks.

Let's not forget...Geddy Lee got HIS signature sound bass at a pawnshop!
 

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