Chinabacker 4005

[bluesblaster]

I dont know what all the fuss is about, did you ever consider there may be a good reason Rickenbacker dropped this model and never cared to reissue it. I'm sure there would be plenty of interest , but still, if it was a good idea they would have done it already.

 

[Stdjazz4]

How many of you use avatars or pics on your computer that are copyrighter or owned by someone else, or have downloaded music? Girlfriend have a knock off bag? Have a chinese computer with stolen technology used in its building of it? Perform copywrited music for your monetary gain? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Oh, Brother!!

 

[Axstar]

I dont know what all the fuss is about, did you ever consider there may be a good reason Rickenbacker dropped this model and never cared to reissue it.

If the money was there then I'm sure they would make them tomorrow. Rickenbacker will make special runs of basses if there is demand (and money) from the dealers. I've seen a lot of folk demanding a 4005 reissue. If you petitioned Guitar Center and paid full whack up front then something might get done.

Ooooh, they come in Jetglo too!

 

[Gorn]

I get it folks. No consequences. Everyone does it. Abstract harm.

Proceed.

Perhaps. But not illegal in America. I'd love to know about other countries though if you feel like providing evidence for your assertion.

 

[DigitalMan]

Doing the right thing is sometimes viewed as a technicality. But then again US highway medians were piled knee high with litter until fines for $500-$1000 became prominently posted. Is the punishment excessive for the crime? Sure. But I think most reasonable people appreciate the reduction is careless littering. Did people change because they suddenly developed a concern for the greater good? Nope. Abstract social consciousness is not an innate human trait apparently.

 

[Paul Boyer]

This is what one of these basses looks like up close:

Argue the legal technicalities all you want, but these things don't look enough like a proper 4005, in my opinion. The body geometry is clumsy, the knob placement is dreadful and the fretboard is some cheap rosewood, whereas it should be lacquered Bubinga or similar.

Yes, but you are assuming that anyone (everyone) has as discriminating an eye as you do. Sure, many of us here on TB can spot a faker in microseconds, but there may be many others who can't see it, don't know about it, or don't care. The problem is that these copies are MADE TO LOOK LIKE something they are not. These manufacturers could just as easily come up with an original design of different (dare I say "more attractive") shape of their own. Instead, they're copying an existing design (look at all the design features: pickguard shape, toaster pickups, cat-eye sound hole, control layout, triangular position markers, even the "R" tailpiece) and making money. I understand there is a certain "self sufficiency" aspect to oriental culture ("I cannot obtain this, but I can make this myself"), and that is OK for the home market. But I can also understand the fits the trademark holder undergoes trying to keep these out of the U.S. market.

 

[DigitalMan]

Perhaps. But not illegal in America. I'd love to know about other countries though if you feel like providing evidence for your assertion.

I have stated an opinion. I have no interest in meeting your scrutiny. Have I seen customers arrested at ladies market in Kowloon? Sure. Do I profess to know Hong Kong law? No. My position is based more on a moral than legal basis. I consider winning or losing the argument with you on a legal basis to be a colossal waste of time for both of us.

 

[snarebear]

And why don t the fender fans raise hell over all of the blatant fender knockoffs put out over the last 40-50 years? Almost every maker has one(or had one) and some receive praise for being as good or better than the original? I myself would not buy a POS like a fakenbacher (or whatever you want to call it) but if you want a potentially useless bass, go for it. It just seems hypocritical that people who knock them are fine with using other copyrighted or patented material.

 

[bassstrangler]

But this is not patent, and it is not copyright. It is trademark. I am not a lawyer (not even on TV!), but the criteria on trademark violations is different and I am not sure that there is any sunset on them. RIC holds trademarks on many of its shapes, features, names, and styles. I don't know for sure, but they probably have the shape of the 4005 protected as well. Just because they haven't made it 30 years (actually, they have on occasion for special customers, IIRC), doesn't mean that they have abandoned protection. What if JH got a wild hair and decided to produce a one-time run? (Yeah, right!)

One thing about trademark that I think is similar to copyright: If you (the producer/author) become aware of someone copying your product without permission (read licensing/leasing/franchising), you must make every effort to notify the copier that he is violating copyright/trademark and needs to cease and desist. If you (the producer) allow some to copy without an agreement/license, and you force others to stop, you lose copyright/trademark protection because you are not claiming the protection equally.

Obviously, this is harder to "enforce" globally as each country has its own laws and enforcement levels that are not nearly the same as those in the U.S. So that is why many of the counterfeits are turned back/confiscated at import - we can enforce these "laws" much easier here. Woe to the U.S. guitar shop that successfully receives these knockoffs (with fake Rickenbacker truss-rod covers or not) and gets a visit from customs agents. The real problem now is that you don't need to have a middleman to get one of these. You order direct from some overseas outfit and it may be unlikely that the non-descript box it comes in gets more than a passing sniff from a talented canine.

One of my beefs is that some of you clowns out there who think it is OK to purchase an "illegal" knockoff like this are the same guys who are fist-pumping "U S A" at sporting events and political rallies. Yea, right.

Buying a knockoff and fist-pumping USA at sporting events and political rallies are not in the same ballpark. Do you buy everything made in the USA? I'm not a clown, I have pride in my country and I wouldn't be caught dead at political rally or a sporting event in which chanting my country's name is protocol. I bought a knockoff. Pretty harsh words for someone to throw around over a silly thing like a Chinese bass.

 

[Gorn]

I have stated an opinion. I have no interest in meeting your scrutiny. Have I seen customers arrested at ladies market in Kowloon? Sure. Do I profess to know Hong Kong law? No. My position is based more on a moral than legal basis. I consider winning or losing the argument with you on a legal basis to be a colossal waste of time for both of us.

I'm sorry. I was under the mistaken impression you were making a fact based claim about legality. My mistake.

 

[DigitalMan]

And why don t the fender fans raise hell over all of the blatant fender knockoffs put out over the last 40-50 years? Almost every maker has one(or had one) and some receive praise for being as good or better than the original? I myself would not buy a POS like a fakenbacher (or whatever you want to call it) but if you want a potentially useless bass, go for it. It just seems hypocritical that people who knock them are fine with using other copyrighted or patented material.

That one is easier to address. Trademarks require diligence to enforce. Fender lost their rights to their body shapes in court due to lack of early diligence. Basically they allows the entire industry to copy their designs ad nauseum for too many years before trying to stop it. That horse had left the barn. Fender did retain rights to their headstock shapes however.

Rickenbacker has been very diligent in protecting their intellectual property.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I own a Chinese copy of a Tuba.

Only it DOES NOT have Miraphone, Made in Germany stamped on it!!

Tuba is a brand name? You learn something new every day.

 

[DigitalMan]

I'm sorry. I was under the mistaken impression you were making a fact based claim about legality. My mistake.

Sorry, right and wrong and legality are different things. Try moving to the Phillipines these days if you are unclear on the distinction. To me right and wrong is the more interesting issue.

 

[electracoyote]

This is what one of these basses looks like up close:

Argue the legal technicalities all you want, but these things don't look enough like a proper 4005, in my opinion. The body geometry is clumsy, the knob placement is dreadful and the fretboard is some cheap rosewood, whereas it should be lacquered Bubinga or similar.

That one looks horrible. Look at that tiny sound hole. Some of them look much nicer than this.

Which begs the question: If you were to buy one, what would it even look like in real life? The on-line picture, or something very different? You'll never be able to predict it.

 

[Gorn]

Sorry, right and wrong and legality are different things. Try moving to the Phillipines these days if you are unclear on the distinction. To me right and wrong is the more interesting issue.

Sure. And if you think it's wrong, say so. But if you're saying it's theft, which you did, you're talking about legality. Precision of language is important to avoid confusion.

 

[bobdabilder]

I kinda like this one.
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[snarebear]

My point is that there are so many knockoffs and so much material available on the interweb, as well as theft of technology, that most of us are doing it without much thought and the people who bitch should look at themselves and their possessions, downloads, auto repairs, etc before jumping on the op for wanting to spend his money as he sees fit.

 

[DigitalMan]

Sure. And if you think it's wrong, say so. But if you're saying it's theft, which you did, you're talking about legality. Precision of language is important to avoid confusion.

Theft is a moral as well as legal concept. Legality simply means it's been codified.

 

[sing-modulator]

I don't mean to break up the party, but can we stop with the morals and ethics debates? Clearly the quota of arguementative posts has been met for this thread, lets return to the topic at hand; ways to relieve GAS in a post-4005 world.

 

[Axstar]

I don't mean to break up the party, but can we stop with the morals and ethics debates?

+1