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Circle K strings vs. "the dead zone"

Mystic Michael

Mystic Michael

Hip No Ties
Supporting Member
Apr 1, 2004
9,883
2,149
New York, NY
#1
A lot of you guys have experienced it: That zone on the fretboard/fingerboard, generally on the D string & G string roughly between the fifth fret and seventh fret, where the attack of the note quickly gets stifled, the sustain peters out, then the note just dies. The Dead Zone. I hate it with a burning passion. :spit:

I've got a pair of Carvin Icon five-string basses, one fretless and one fretted, that I really dig...except for the presence of a serious dead zone on each instrument, though the problem is more pronounced on the fretted instrument. I need a serious fix.

Yes, conventional wisdom suggests that one's options are limited. I get that. I'm also aware of the FatFinger, which I already use on several other bass guitars, with some modestly positive results. But the FatFinger won't fit on an Icon headstock. It just won't.

Right now both of these basses are wearing a set of dead DR Fat Beams, and are way overdue for a string change. I intend to switch over to a new set of Circle K balanced-tension strings for each of these instruments, and something tells me that they not only could make for a much better tonal and touch match with my Icons, but might actually help improve the resonance and sustain as well - thereby helping to lessen the effect of the dead zone. Call it a hunch. I have nothing more to go on at this point.

By chance, have any of you Circle K balanced-tension users experienced such an effect after you switched over? Please do tell.

MM
 
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#3
Two things in particular give me hope:

1) Circle K claims that their bass strings are more flexible than ordinary bass strings, thereby offering the potential for greater string excursion at any given gauge;

2) The greater flexibility is alleged to provide easier playability in the larger gauges, thereby allowing one to have the playability of a lighter gauge, with the sheer string mass of a larger gauge.

These two things - the greater flexibility/excursion and the larger gauges, suggest two factors that could ameliorate the effects of the dead zone - by vibrating a larger mass of metal over the pickups, and allowing that larger mass to vibrate more freely. Personally, I'm considering the .142 balanced set (BEADG): gauges .142 .106 .079 .059 .043.

Am I on track here, or what?

MM
 
#4
My G&L SB-2 has the 7th fret G dead spot just as my Mike Lull P4 did...and my Musicman Classic Sabre...and my G&L LB-100...and my Stingray HH Fretless..you get the point. I haven't tried Circle K but what I've found is that higher gauge, and therefore higher tension strings tend to make it more obvious where as lower gauge, lower tension strings tend to improve the problem SLIGHTLY. Dead spots have to do more with the neck vibrating at the same frequency of the note. Different tension strings allow the neck to vibrate differently, thus changing how obvious the dead spot is. So while they may help a little, you won't get rid of the dead spot entirely. Dead spots are a fact of life for most basses and adding weight is more effective if you truly want to try and eliminate it.
 
#5
Mystic Michael said:
Two things in particular give me hope:

1) Circle K claims that their bass strings are more flexible than ordinary bass strings, thereby offering the potential for greater string excursion at any given gauge;

2) The greater flexibility is alleged to provide easier playability in the larger gauges, thereby allowing one to have the playability of a lighter gauge, with the sheer string mass of a larger gauge.

These two things - the greater flexibility/excursion and the larger gauges, suggest two factors that could ameliorate the effects of the dead zone - by vibrating a larger mass of metal over the pickups, and allowing that larger mass to vibrate more freely. Personally, I'm considering the .142 balanced set (BEADG): gauges .142 .106 .079 .059 .043.

Am I on track here, or what?

MM
Click to expand...

That hypothesis sounds logical to me.
 
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#6
I put a set of Ken Smith Compressors on a Peavey P neck and the 'dead spot' disappeared- probably just moved off a fret, but whatever works, even tho I don't really know why...diff tension to the set?
 
#8
Mystic Michael said:
Two things in particular give me hope:

1) Circle K claims that their bass strings are more flexible than ordinary bass strings, thereby offering the potential for greater string excursion at any given gauge;

2) The greater flexibility is alleged to provide easier playability in the larger gauges, thereby allowing one to have the playability of a lighter gauge, with the sheer string mass of a larger gauge.

These two things - the greater flexibility/excursion and the larger gauges, suggest two factors that could ameliorate the effects of the dead zone - by vibrating a larger mass of metal over the pickups, and allowing that larger mass to vibrate more freely. Personally, I'm considering the .142 balanced set (BEADG): gauges .142 .106 .079 .059 .043.

Am I on track here, or what?

MM
Click to expand...


Here's the only problem with that logic.....you are replacing one of the few sets of strings out there that negates your two points. DR round cores are more flexible and have more excursion, and have more mass since they use a compression winding method. Most any other string, those points would be true though! Compared to DR's I found CK's to be pretty stiff, but compared to LaBella or D'Addario they feel like rubber bands.
 
#10
Mystic Michael said:
A lot of you guys have experienced it: That zone on the fretboard/fingerboard, generally on the D string & G string roughly between the fifth fret and seventh fret, where the attack of the note quickly gets stifled, the sustain peters out, then the note just dies. The Dead Zone. I hate it with a burning passion. :spit:

I've got a pair of Carvin Icon five-string basses, one fretless and one fretted, that I really dig...except for the presence of a serious dead zone on each instrument, though the problem is more pronounced on the fretted instrument. I need a serious fix.

Yes, conventional wisdom suggests that one's options are limited. I get that. I'm also aware of the FatFinger, which I already use on several other bass guitars, with some modestly positive results. But the FatFinger won't fit on an Icon headstock. It just won't.

Right now both of these basses are wearing a set of dead DR Fat Beams, and are way overdue for a string change. I intend to switch over to a new set of Circle K balanced-tension strings for each of these instruments, and something tells me that they not only could make for a much better tonal and touch match with my Icons, but might actually help improve the resonance and sustain as well - thereby helping to lessen the effect of the dead zone. Call it a hunch. I have nothing more to go on at this point.

By chance, have any of you Circle K balanced-tension users experienced such an effect after you switched over? Please do tell.

MM
Click to expand...
I feel for you and know what it's like. I have had low budget basses that didn't have dead spots and expensive ones that did ( it's a crap shoot and sometimes you don't notice it till months after you purchased said bass ). Some people never hear them on their bass but when I play it "I do". It's a blessing and a curse to notice. Hope you find help here on TB, I've never found an answer but doesn't mean there isn't one. Best of luck!
 
#13
fourstringdrums said:
Dead spots are a fact of life for most basses and adding weight is more effective if you truly want to try and eliminate it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear you. For me, it's worth seeing if I can get a pair of custom-produced, custom-shaped metal plates to attach to the rear of the headstocks. It's a very small investment relative to the $4,000+ I already have wrapped up in these babies, so it makes sense to find a solution rather than give up, flip them, and eat a big loss. If it weren't for the dead zones, these babies would be about as ideal for my purposes as they could be.

I've got more than $2,000 wrapped up in each one, because I invested in some extensive aftermarket customization. Each instrument has a pair of SGD ND3 wide-aperture Neo humbuckers, plus an 18-volt Audere Pro-Z onboard preamp. The effect is pure, refined, hi-fi and modern, phat, smooth and deep. With David Schwab's pickups business teetering on the brink, these SGDs may be the last I'll ever get. So that factors into the mix as well.

stuntbass77 said:
I feel for you and know what it's like. I have had low budget basses that didn't have dead spots and expensive ones that did ( it's a crap shoot and sometimes you don't notice it till months after you purchased said bass ). Some people never hear them on their bass but when I play it "I do". It's a blessing and a curse to notice. Hope you find help here on TB, I've never found an answer but doesn't mean there isn't one. Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Well, that's the maddening thing. While there are some general principles that tend to apply, it's almost impossible to predict with any accuracy which basses will be afflicted by the deadness, and which ones will not. Until one plays them, that is.

MM
 
#14
I would try a set of strings with slightly higher tension than you currently have on the bass, and after readjusting the truss rod to maintain the same preferred relief, then tweak the truss rod about a 1/6 to 1/4 turn more - no so much that it actually alters the relief of the neck, but that would have the effect of making the neck stiffer, and that will at least change, if not eliminate the resonant frequency of the neck. Maybe that can help you live with the basses.
 
#16
petrus61 said:
Carbon fiber equipped necks are just as likely to have them and it's been talked about a billion times here.
Click to expand...

I think one of the reason it's been talked about a billion times is because there is not a consensus on that. Many people feel that the inserts cut down on the incidence of dead spots considerably. Until we run a scientific test on the subject we will just have to go with anecdotal evidence. Me? Never played a carbon fiber neck or a wooden neck with carbon fiber inserts that had any dead spots.
 
#17
I just wanted to add something I noticed today regarding dead spots on the 7th fret G (D). If you play the note and immediately take your finger off the D string to unmute it, the dead note opens up because it vibrates sympathetically. So this is a good trick for when you need to sustain the note longer than it will let you.
 
#18
fourstringdrums said:
I just wanted to add something I noticed today regarding dead spots on the 7th fret G (D). If you play the note and immediately take your finger off the D string to unmute it, the dead note opens up because it vibrates sympathetically. So this is a good trick for when you need to sustain the note longer than it will let you.
Click to expand...

Also, fretting the same note on the A string while plucking it on the G will also sound out the complete higher D note sympathetically. This is another trick for getting around a dead spot and will work anywhere on the neck there is one.
 
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