CITES - What every bass player should know

[redstrand]

Lol Ive found 1 guy who had some flutes seized and I don’t need to do google search to know that if you are flying internationally you might have the amount of money to be able to easily transport your instrument if need be. (The amount is significantly less lol) The execution by these governments who formed cites to protect plants and animals are going to seize/steal something someone purchased to have the endangered material destroyed? I’m still not getting the feeling that people’s instruments are being destroyed so that the endangered material they were made of will be sure to not play music but to be ensuring the endangered population. Someone somewhere is aware that destroying the endangered wood is not what they want to do. Do you not see the obsurdity?

Yes we do and that’s what your not understanding. They do destroy the items, it’s documented from Gibson to having things imported by an individual. If the proper cites documentation and license aren’t taken care of then said bass is seized and the buyer is sol. Thanks for joining the forum and quite literally trolling. As you can see by the responses you’re not as informed as you think you are and most definitely on the troll side of things....this isn’t the only music forum that has an extensive thread about this and not one of them has someone like you.

 

[StayLow]

Oh I’ll purchase the easily obtained permit but im just not sure if we should be worried about the organization set in place to protect the endangered wood to be organizing any kind of law that involves them locating endangered wood, seizing it, than destroying it.

Probably not. But what I suggest you "should" be worried about is giving them ANY excuse to hassle you more than their hyper-ego, desperate need to flex their "authority", and laws of dubious validity or reason already give them.

The amount of logic and discretion they are compelled to, much less aspiring to, exercise is not a value significantly less than zero.

Should a dumb rabid animal bite you? Is there any good reason or net benefit? No. Still best not to taunt it.

 

[Funk Fashion]

Yes we do and that’s what your not understanding. They do destroy the items, it’s documented from Gibson to having things imported by an individual. If the proper cites documentation and license aren’t taken care of then said bass is seized and the buyer is sol. Thanks for joining the forum and quite literally trolling. As you can see by the responses you’re not as informed as you think you are and most definitely on the troll side of things....this isn’t the only music forum that has an extensive thread about this and not one of them has someone like you.

I’m still not clear on the one example you have, so the company Gibson documented that an individual traveling imported an instrument. I’m just trying to stay informed, when an instrument gets seized where does it go?

 

[Funk Fashion]

Probably not. But what I suggest you "should" be worried about is giving them ANY excuse to hassle you more than their hyper-ego, desperate need to flex their "authority", and laws of dubious validity or reason already give them.

The amount of logic and discretion they are interested in exercising is not a value significantly less than zero.

Should a dumb rabid animal bite you? Is there any good reason or net benefit? No. Still best not to taunt it.

I’m just trying to shed some comfort to the people who are now aware of the law and are still scared that they will ignore this fact travel with their guitar and have it seized and destroyed by the people tryin to protect it.

 

[Funk Fashion]

Probably not. But what I suggest you "should" be worried about is giving them ANY excuse to hassle you more than their hyper-ego, desperate need to flex their "authority", and laws of dubious validity or reason already give them.

The amount of logic and discretion they are compelled to, much less aspiring to, exercise is not a value significantly less than zero.

Should a dumb rabid animal bite you? Is there any good reason or net benefit? No. Still best not to taunt it.

 

[StayLow]

I’m just trying to shed some comfort to the people who are now aware of the law and are still scared that they will ignore this fact travel with their guitar and have it seized and destroyed by the people tryin to protect it.

Fair. It is a remote likelihood when travelling with a personal instrument. That's been well established.

 

[Funk Fashion]

They don’t have a general aspiration but they do have specific goals they are open about. Like not destroying endangered wood. I am not trolling but just have a simple understanding that the seizing of instruments at any capacity is going to be tolerated it makes literally no sense for them to have it now instead of me. Sure let them make me buy a permit, but is their going to be a remotely significant amount of musicians that fly get to their destination and are just sol? Ya no because as soon as 1 person who’s nice guitar is taken from them they will like I would just start a case against cites. This post is crazy because I wouldn’t need an argument, the case would state that they now obtain the endangered wood instead of the me. Can they make my bass sprout a seed and grow?

 

[Funk Fashion]

Fair. It is a remote likelihood when travelling with a personal instrument. That's been well established.

Lol it just hasn’t happened yet, holding it doesn’t count. Cites is not going to start seizing instruments. “What will be their answer to what is done it’s the instruments”?
Because I guarantee you if they took my bass their would be action taken idk about you. Now if every instrument turned into a tree than sure its theirs. This is just a way to make money, they will be doing the opposite if they start seizing instruments and if you can’t pay for the permit over some have said took them 3 months than your instrument isn’t valuable enough to you to even have cared to have it. Again our governments are not going to start taking our instruments

 

[redstrand]

Lol it just hasn’t happened yet, holding it doesn’t count. Cites is not going to start seizing instruments. “What will be their answer to what is done it’s the instruments”?
Because I guarantee you if they took my bass their would be action taken idk about you. Now if every instrument turned into a tree than sure its theirs. This is just a way to make money, they will be doing the opposite if they start seizing instruments and if you can’t pay for the permit over some have said took them 3 months than your instrument isn’t valuable enough to you to even have cared to have it. Again our governments are not going to start taking our instruments

Read the bottom

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And this

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And this

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As Dean Wormer would tell you, ignorance is no excuse.
A simple google search would enlighten you and ultimately refuted your points. Good night.

 

[smperry]

This does not deserve a thread

Other people think differently. The purpose of this thread is to inform people about CITES.

 

[StayLow]

They don’t have a general aspiration but they do have specific goals they are open about. Like not destroying endangered wood. I am not trolling but just have a simple understanding that the seizing of instruments at any capacity is going to be tolerated it makes literally no sense ...

I've already very clearly pointed out to you that what makes "sense" does NOT matter whatsoever.

Lol it just hasn’t happened yet, holding it doesn’t count. Cites is not going to start seizing instruments. “What will be their answer to what is done it’s the instruments”?
Because I guarantee you if they took my bass their would be action taken idk about you.

If I'm travelling with an instrument I want the instrument NOT losing the use of it then wasting time and money trying to get it by "taking action" against agents of an ultramassive runaway bureaucracy, and the bureaucracy itself, that couldn't care less about what makes sense much less what's moral, what my rights are, or keeping track of and preserving my instrument while it's in their surely highly diligent and loving care.

Now here's action very much worth taking. You please seriously consider joining a debate club and I'm going to add you to my "Ignore" list.

 

[Jim Carr]

My ignore list is often augmented by visit to this thread.

 

[gln1955]

Lol it just hasn’t happened yet, holding it doesn’t count. Cites is not going to start seizing instruments. “What will be their answer to what is done it’s the instruments”?
Because I guarantee you if they took my bass their would be action taken idk about you. Now if every instrument turned into a tree than sure its theirs. This is just a way to make money, they will be doing the opposite if they start seizing instruments and if you can’t pay for the permit over some have said took them 3 months than your instrument isn’t valuable enough to you to even have cared to have it. Again our governments are not going to start taking our instruments

Suppose a customs agent of a foreign country takes your bass. What "action" are you taking?

You really don't have a clue about what you're babbling on about.

 

[smperry]

The person you're all writing to will not be responding in this thread, so I suggest that everyone doesn't bother so the thread can get back to CITES. Thanks.

Now here's action very much worth taking. You please seriously consider joining a debate club and I'm going to add you to my "Ignore" list.

My ignore list is often augmented by visit to this thread.

Suppose a customs agent of a foreign country takes your bass. What "action" are you taking?

 

[gln1955]

 

[s_wood]

There may be some good news for us on the horizon. In May of 2019 a conference of the nations who have signed the CITES treaty will vote on a recommendation that has already been approved by the appropriate CITES committee which would exempt finished musical instruments and musical instrument parts from the CITES restrictions on the movement of all dalbergia rosewoods (basically, cocobolo, bubinga and all rosewoods except Brazilian). If the recommendation is adopted, there will be no restrictions on the international movement or sales of musical instruments unless they contain Brazilian rosewood or other so-called “Appendix I” materials (like ivory). Fingers crossed ...

 

[SteveNorstroms]

Are ebony fretboard basses at risk of seizure by US customs without CITES documentation (or is the focus really just on rosewood, bubinga and cocobolo??)

 

[s_wood]

Ebony is not one of the woods covered by CITES. So far, of the wood species commonly used in guitars or basses, only the rosewoods (which include bubinga and cocobolo) are covered.

 

[SteveNorstroms]

Ebony is not one of the woods covered by CITES. So far, of the wood species commonly used in guitars or basses, only the rosewoods (which include bubinga and cocobolo) are covered.

That's what I thought and then I came across this:

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[s_wood]

Ebony is a so-called “Appendix II” wood, like the rosewoods, but only if it was harvested in Madagascar and only if the product in question is a "sawed log, veneer or plywood." Bottom line: there are no real-world controls over ebony, and so there is no reason to worry if you are buying or selling a bass with ebony in it. Yet.

Appendix II woods are covered world-wide and can only move internationally for commercial purposes with a permit. Bubinga, cocobolo and all the rosewood (dalbergia) species except Brazilian are Appendix II woods, but unlike ebony the commercial sale rosewood restrictions in Appendix II apply to anything that contains rosewood. Brazilian rosewood is in Appendix I, and so it can’t be traded internationally at all.