CITES - What every bass player should know

[SteveNorstroms]

Ebony is a so-called “Appendix III” wood, which only means that if a particular country wants to it can require a person seeking to export ebony from that country to get a permit first. There are only 3 countries that have that requirement - all in Central America, which isn’t where most fingerboard ebony comes from. Bottom line: there are no real-world controls over ebony. Yet.

Appendix II woods are covered world-wide and can only move internationally for commercial purposes with a permit. Bubinga, cocobolo and all the rosewood species except Brazilian are Appendix II wood. Brazilian is in Appendix I, and so it can’t be traded internationally at all.

Great - thanks for the clarification.

I was hoping the answer would be thereabouts...

Awaiting my NBD delivery from Japan and it has an ebony fretboard - thought I was in the clear and then found that CITES "Appendix III" page and got worried.

 

[murphy]

In May of 2019 a conference of the nations who have signed the CITES treaty will vote

It's May now...How will we find the result?

 

[s_wood]

Well, some things are more important than rosewood. The May, 2019 CITES conference was scheduled to have taken place in Colombo, Sri Lanka just a few weeks after the terrorist attacks there that killed more than 250 people. Because of ongoing security concerns the conference was postponed and has yet to be rescheduled.

 

[MustangWally]

Can anyone give me a pointer on this: I built my own solid body bass back in New Zealand, somewhere in the late 1970's, from mahogany with a rosewood fretboard and rosewood headstock veneer. I have absolutely no idea where these timbers originated from, the mahogany I bought from a cabinetry shop that did my machining and the rosewood came from a guy who had some blanks stashed under his bed that he was building acoustic guitars from. He had had them sitting there for many years so he probably got them in the early 1970's. All persons and places no longer exist to the best of my knowledge so I cannot go and ask 'where did you get this' at all.

My bass is currently in Australia and I plan to bring it back to the US with me early in 2020 as oversized baggage.

Can I expect CITES issues at the border and if so is there anything that I can do ahead of time to prepare?

 

[Garret Graves]

Can anyone give me a pointer on this: I built my own solid body bass back in New Zealand, somewhere in the late 1970's, from mahogany with a rosewood fretboard and rosewood headstock veneer. I have absolutely no idea where these timbers originated from, the mahogany I bought from a cabinetry shop that did my machining and the rosewood came from a guy who had some blanks stashed under his bed that he was building acoustic guitars from. He had had them sitting there for many years so he probably got them in the early 1970's. All persons and places no longer exist to the best of my knowledge so I cannot go and ask 'where did you get this' at all.

My bass is currently in Australia and I plan to bring it back to the US with me early in 2020 as oversized baggage.

Can I expect CITES issues at the border and if so is there anything that I can do ahead of time to prepare?

You are traveling with the bass, it’s not for sale, a personal instrument- they most likely won’t even look at it, except for x-ray. You can also have the species of woods identified, probably wouldn’t be cheap to do so though. I’ve traveled with basses internationally last year, hand carried through customs, never was asked about the woods at all, through multiple countries. You can also see the posts here about how orchestral musicians are handling this.

 

[MustangWally]

Thanks Garret, I appreciate your reply. I wonder if I should consider getting a one-time import permit anyway just to be sure? This bass is priceless to me and probably worthless to anyone else. Sentimentality and all that.

Question if I may: how exactly did you take your basses - oversize baggage (checked) or did you buy a seat for them? Thanks!

 

[s_wood]

Agree with the above, with one potentially important exception. I don’t know about how Australia enforces CITES, but in the U.S. the CITES treaty exemption. for personal travel with an instrument contains less than 10kg of a regulated wood is ok.

Here’s the “but.".You didn't say what kind of rosewood your fingerboard was made from, and it matters. The international movement of Brazilian rosewood is basically prohibited, and because most bass players - and most customs inspectors - can’t tell the difference between Brazilian rosewood and the other kinds, there is always some risk if you travel with proof that your rosewood isn’t Brazilian - if it isnt isn’t.

 

[MustangWally]

Yeah, this could be the stumbling block, and I have no idea what flavor of rosewood I used - I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast these days let alone what kind of wood I used almost 40 years ago.

 

[s_wood]

Yeah, this could be the stumbling block, and I have no idea what flavor of rosewood I used - I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast these days let alone what kind of wood I used almost 40 years ago.

I hear you! The best i can say is that if you are traveling with the bass as personal luggage and tell them that it’s yours and that you aren’t selling it you will probably, but not certainly, be ok.

 

[MustangWally]

Seems like getting a permit might also be raising a red flag whereas otherwise I might just slip under the radar.

 

[s_wood]

The permit is never a bad idea, except that you may not have the documentation necessary to get one. First step, if you were so inclined, would be to take it to a credible luthier and ask him or her what kind of rosewood which used for your fingerboard.

 

[MustangWally]

Yeah, considering that I made it myself a long time ago there is no credible paperwork. There used to be a luthier in Brisbane years ago which is 200 miles from where the instrument is, maybe I will do some searching. I still have more than 6 months before I actually go over there and get it.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I have no idea what flavor of rosewood I used.

Post lots of sharp, detailed photos here and we can help in ID'ing of the wood.

 

[Si-bob]

Hi all,

Wondering if I can get some help from those of you that have studied this in depth.
I'm due to send a used bass that I'm selling/sold to someone in the US (from the UK), it's made up of the following woods:

Alder body
Indian Cedar top
Ash neck
Macassar Ebony fingerboard

I believe I'm ok from body and neck point of view, but I'm not 100% on the top and the fingerboard.
Any thoughts?

edit:
Looking here: Restricted and Endangered Wood Species | The Wood Database
I believe I'm safe?!

Cheers
Si

 

[s_wood]

Yep! You should be fine.

 

[Jaccoo]

I have a Samick Bass made in Indonesia. I plan to travel along with it to the US. Is it safe?
Would love to hear your kind responses

 

[s_wood]

What woods are used on your bass?

 

[gln1955]

Here is one I've been concerned about for a while. I have a "lawsuit era" Takamine acoustic guitar. I distinctly remember when I bought it, the specs said Jacaranda back, sides and neck. Now, I know true jacaranda is not a rosewood, but I've read many references that say the term jacaranda is used for Brazilian rosewood, especially in Brazil. The color and grain are gorgeous and look very much like what I see on actual Brazilian rosewood guitars. I haven't been able to find anything from Takamine support that would clarify this.

So, should I be concerned about traveling with this guitar. No immediate plans for international travel, but you never know.

 

[s_wood]

According to Appendix I of the CITES treaty, jacaranda is another game for Brazilian rosewood. Instruments containing Brazilian rosewood can’t travel internationally at all unless you have the appropriate CITES paperwork or a CITES musical instrument passport. Look here for more info:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Jaccoo]

What woods are used on your bass?

I cannot really tell. Here is the picture. Thanks in anticipation