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CITES - What every bass player should know

#81
I don't think this is as big a problem as everyone is stating

the issue is based on making it unprofitable to deal in these materials - the crooks are great at finding holes in the system such as third party sales, third country transport, etc.

if the demand dries up the poaching will decline too

BTW, teak is a wonderful sustainable wood - grows well on plantations and matures quickly
 
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#82
I've traveled all over the world with my Brazilian Rosewood guitar with Ivory bridge and nut and never had a problem. I always read about the confiscations and such but have never even been questioned on it.

I'm either lucky or this situation is blown a bit out of proportion. . .
 
#83
Good point, pnchad: I should have specified old-growth native teak from southeast Asia, which isn't on the CITES list but has been on a couple of other less-restrictive lists during the past 10-20 years. Plantation teak, thankfully, is relatively plentiful, though I wouldn't say that it matures quickly (80-120 years to avoid having to be kiln-dried, which inherently weakens the wood) ... anyway: back on topic ... :thumbsup:
 
#84
depends on what you call mature - I think plantations are harvesting teak more often than 80yrs although probably of moderate dimensions

I've worked a little with teak on boats but not sure where it might be usable in lutherie - it is relatively light & extremely durable
 
#87
Thick McRunfast said:
Maybe ya'll can get the pro Clive Bundy thread in OT resurrected and pinned there as well

smh
Click to expand...

There was a PRO Clive Bundy thread? Was there a pro Westboro thread as well?


This law is only as good or bad as the knowledge of those enforcing it. I think one solution would be to import those woods in question and farm/raise them in the US. Also, what do luthiers and bassists have to do with the mass deforestation going on in South America and Asia? I'm not sure what percentage of those woods go towards bass manufacturing, but my (un)educated guess would be that it is minimal.
 
#88
bass_case said:
When did Fender switch from Brazilian to Indian rosewood? I heard it was a gradual process starting in the late 60s, so if have a 71 rosewood fretless P neck it could be either one?

Many of these trees are common in S. Florida, mahogany is planted by the state along roads.
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My '72 jazz has a Brazilian neck. And to be honest I travel with it all the time and have never been hassled.
 
#89
I think the worst part about eBay confiscating that MM is that it opens up a whole can of worms. I would be bummed if I had been involved, but that's not really the issue in my mind. There was almost certainly nothing illegal about that MM, and yet it was taken anyhow. That's scary. Whether or not it actually went to the wood chipper (which helps no one) I don't know, I'd guess it probably ended up in the hands of an eBay employee. Regardless, what if it had been destroyed? What if the guitar had been a vintage instrument, the type that belongs in a museum? Are we going to start putting Van Goghs in the wood chipper too? I understand the problem with poaching but I don't see how destroying vintage instruments helps anything.

One more thing: If the issue is only about bringing illegal woods (in any form, apparently) to another country, surely you could just refuse to travel? I guess the eBay situation was slightly different since the seller no longer owned the bass in question, but still, if I knew my choice was having a bass destroyed or not traveling, I would bring the bass home and fly the next day. Or would you even have the choice? Could US security let you leave with the bass and then French customs refuse to let it in? And then the US refuse to let you bring it back? Really frightening situation, potentially.
 
#90
Well even if I most definitely agree in general, items should not be confiscated in this way, I think vintage museum grade instruments and Van Gogh paintings should not be, and probably are not sold on eBay and shipped using an unspecified low-cost transport company. ;)
 
#92
Yes, I think it's probably not relevant to bring up museum pieces and old paintings, I don't think CITES has any bearing on those as they most likely will have the proper paperwork and the provenance to prove they are OK (the law does not say that all items made from endangered materials are illegal). I guess you could still run into the odd idiot customs or shipping person that takes it upon themselves to try to confiscate something, but if I were to ship such an item I would use a specialist courier that knows how to deal with such transports, and knows import/export regulations.
 
#93
Oh, so it IS okay to bring illegal wood into other countries so long as you've got proper paperwork? I read the whole thread and I still got the impression that it was kind of up to the people working customs. This is not as bad as I thought, then.
 
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#94
In any case, I brought up the idea of museum pieces because this law (enacted poorly) could threaten a potentially valuable piece that does belong in a museum. Consider the case of Jaco's Bass of Doom. For 20-30 years, no one knew where the thing was. It was a '62 Fender, so could (or does?) contain woods now considered illegal. Before it was rediscovered a few years ago, the owner didn't realize he was holding one of the most legendary basses of all time. A customs agent obviously wouldn't have known either. Would it not have been a shame if the Bass of Doom had been destroyed just because the owner had taken it abroad?
 
#95
So, a couple more things, just to be clear. Is it illegal to transport/sell/buy a guitar made with Brazilian Rosewood (especially those of questionable origin) or is it illegal to own said instrument? Also, Fender Japan wouldn't have been using such woods in recent builds, right? I just bought a new (2013) MIJ Jazz that uses "rosewood" for the fretboard. I would say it's probably a million to one that there is anything illegal about it, given how recently it was made, but do you think I could run into any trouble bringing the bass from Japan to the US when I move home?
 
#96
Turnaround said:
This topic has arisen in different threads, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own, since it is so important to musical instrument makers and owners alike.

CITES is the Convention for International Trade in Endangered Species. The legislation from it is having a profound effect on instrument makers since it restricts their ability to source and use woods that are classified as "endangered". CITES is used to restrict the import and export of these endangered species - i.e. it legally prevents such species from crossing international boundaries.

Please add any information you have to this thread.
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So, I am safe with American grown Alder and maple?:D
 
#99
radicaldreamers said:
Oh, so it IS okay to bring illegal wood into other countries so long as you've got proper paperwork?
Click to expand...

radicaldreamers said:
So, a couple more things, just to be clear. Is it illegal to transport/sell/buy a guitar made with Brazilian Rosewood (especially those of questionable origin) or is it illegal to own said instrument?
Click to expand...

These points are confusing me too ...
 

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