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CITES - What every bass player should know

#42
Whenever I see a Wal for sale here the seller usually opens the electronics cavity for the buyers sake and I notice the folks at Wal catalog the woods used to make the bass on the inside of the cover. That's something the domestic builders should agree to do and get ahead of CITES by approaching the lawmakers with some sort of unified commitment protecting endangered species....just a thought
 
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#43
Gaolee said:
It is an interesting problem with no good solutions. I have a mid to late 1960s EB-2. It probably has some kind of contraband fretboard wood, but I don't know. Likewise, I have chairs made of now extinct Cuban mahogany. That wood was made into chairs over 100 years ago. about 25 years ago, I used a fair amount of Honduras mahogany to build chairs. I still have pieces of that wood left. I kept all the scraps, because it was getting harder to get then, and it is one of the most enjoyable woods to work. So, I suppose my basement is illegal now. But, if you don't start somewhere, how do you keep people from skinning the planet completely? I absolutely don't know the answer.
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Funny you should mention your EB-2. It prompted me to Google search (I use 'Ixquick HTTPS' as my engine) for "Gibson factory raid". Lo and behold, there are stories that Gibson's factory was not raided just one, but twice!! It absolutely confounds me that, per CEO Henry Juszkiewicz's assertion, there was no effort to contact or meet with him in a businesslike manner to iron out the whole mess. Now, there are other assertions as to why Gibson was raided and not other factories that use identical rosewoods for fretboard blanks, but I won't get into that.

After all that aggravation, the DOJ did not pursue charges, pretty much saying: "Nah...it's all good". Again, I have to point out that I oppose the wholesale depletion of scarce resources. However, this treaty should not be subject to the whims of overly zealous regulatory bodies who rely "on a hunch" or "opinion" that a particular timber is used illegally, when in fact, it most certainly was not. As I always say: "Don't BS a BS'er and don't sell ice to an Eskimo."
 
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#44
Plectrum72 said:
Can't speak for other countries, but in the US, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof being upon the accuser not the accused? Last I knew, this was one of the basic tenants of criminal law.
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That vanished with the war on drugs when law enforcement decided any large amounts of cash were drug money until proven otherwise.
 
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#49
bucephylus said:
I wonder what on earth they even do with confiscated instruments. I can't think of a single destiny for such instruments that makes any sense at all, other than for bullying/harassment purposes.
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Pigs love to bully. That's why they become professional bullies. Much easier than applying discretion or logic, which is typically beyond their intellect.

Try to be empathetic. If you were some worthless shmuck stuck in a dead-end government job at a border crossing or processing office all day, asking the same stupid questions and accomplishing nothing but getting fatter, you'd want to come down hard on someone as cool as a touring musician or bass purchaser too.
 
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#50
M.R. Ogle said:
I would think that this is where a decent "manufacturer's organization" (NAMM?) would use some of their revenues to hire a team of lawyers to get on the case and file some motion to grandfather in instruments built before a certain date. Preposterous to have a problem with a twenty-five year old existing instrument (where the wood is ALREADY in it's final use) that was built before those laws were even in existence.

That's NOT protecting ANYTHING, it's just an abuse of power.
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True. Taking the other side for a moment however, what's stopping clever importers of banned woods from making bogus relic'd instruments and claiming they're 40 years old as a medium for importing the woods? Why should borderpigs care about any such distinctions, or easily-f0rged statements of provenance from builders they've never heard of, when they're so busy getting rich by keeping us safe from boogeymen?
 
#51
FretNoMore said:
Maybe you could get a certificate from the builder, stating what woods were used. Not that I think it's foolproof if you run across a fool with powers.
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This is what I believe Sadowsky and other builders provide.
Roger even says on his site. Brazilian R
FretNoMore said:
Maybe you could get a certificate from the builder, stating what woods were used. Not that I think it's foolproof if you run across a fool with powers.
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osewood may not be a good choice if traveling.
 
#52
Has anyone actually been a victim of this statute? There is quite a difference between enacting a law and enforcing a law. In the USA, there are many laws and statutes in force that are admittedly unenforceable. Of the individuals that replied to this thread, how many actually cross international borders with contraband on a regular basis? What is more likely: that your instrument would bee confiscated due to this statute or that your prized possession would be stolen outright during transit? If this thread is about having a go at the establishment, then game on! I get the distinct impression that this is more of a flash mob contributing to a conversation that most people will never be effected by, let alone actually hear about it.
 
#56
ebay/Pitney Bowes experiencing shipping hiccups is one thing. But we seem to have a small army of TB ninnies squawking about things like needing to put their guitars through an arboreal DNA test before they go on tour.
 
#57
AudioDwebe said:
How are any of the border agents to know the species of the wood on a given instrument?
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I crossed the Canada/U.S. border a week ago with a bass. To avoid any problems upon re-entry to Canada I went in to Canada customs just before leaving the country to register my bass (and get one of those little green cards where they write down the make of guitar and serial number then sign and stamp it). Now, I've done this before with a couple of different basses and it was a very easy process - took two minutes for the agent to look at the serial number and fill out the card - but not this time. This particular agent gave me the third degree - it was as if I was trying to bring the instrument back from the states (instead of leaving my own country with it). He asked me all kinds of questions about the origins of the bass, who I'd bought it from, where, when, why I didn't know the sellers middle name (slight exaggeration, but not by much). Throughout all of this one thing became very clear - this guy knew nothing about basses or guitars. Interestingly, he didn't ask about the woods (if I'd had to prove that the wood was legit according to CITES I would have been up the creek) and when he wrote down the model of the bass (which he got wrong - along with the brand name) he included a description of "brown wood" (by which he obviously meant the neck and fingerboard, since the body is a slightly golden tinted ash and maple). So yeah, the idea of having a guy whose knowledge of wood probably doesn't go beyond brown vs not brown deciding on the fate of my instrument is pretty scary.
 
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#59
I believe we have a member who has been a victim. He purchased a bass on ebay and ebay confiscated it alledgedly because of its composition. There's a Wal another member is trying to sell and he's got to be careful shipping it because some overzealous agent may confiscate it.
 

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