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Click Tracks... To use them or not?

MakiSupaStar

MakiSupaStar

The Lowdown Diggler
Apr 12, 2006
25,881
317
Huntington Beach, CA
www.myspace.com
#1
I'm finding that as a band we're kind of shying away from the idea of using a click track to establish our songs. There are a couple of reasons for this. Some of our songs switch tempo, speeding up in parts. Our drummer is under the impression that we should just play the way we play live and a few tempo fluxes here and there are ok. He's okay with a less professional sounding product. I realize it would be a better constructed song, but we're finding that adhering to it is killing our energy. What's everyone's opinion on this? Do you use them? Do you avoid them?
 
#3
I never use them,I have no use for click tracks.I'm from the school of music where the songs should be tight to begin with.That's one of the reasons a lot of music has a sterile feel to it and a lot of times click tracks don't help the situation.If musicans would concentrate on aspects of their timing it really would be a lot of better feeling music out there.Whats the purpose of rehearsing to get tight only to go in the studio to use a click track.A lot of times people just use them as crutches and they end up not even being tight with the click tracks.

when I'm in the studio recording and if the engineer want's to use a click track for the music,I just ask the engineer to not have the click in my headphones.
 
#4
Use a click.
Make sure you practice with it first, as a band, because you'll obviously waste money in the studio if anyone (ahem... your DRUMMER!) has trouble playing to it.
IMHO, the best results often come from having the drummer and bass player really home in on the click to keep things moving along evenly, with everyone else focusing more on the bass player and drummer, and "breathing" normally. You don't want to sound like a robotic band (or maybe you do). Also, the drummer and bass player are often the band members most accustomed to the concept of adhering to steady time, and thus following a click. If there's any way to put the click only in the headphones of you and the drummer, that might be the way to go. But definitely practice with it before recording, to anticipate trainwrecks.
Oh yeah, one great thing about a click: if you agree on the tempos, you won't have any last minute arguments about someone counting a song off too slowly or quickly on the day you record-- the click doesn't lie!
Just my $.02.
 
#5
every lord only song was done with a click (in fact they were all done one instrument at a time). you can have tempo and time sig shifts and still keep it tight, you just have to learn how. a lot of musicians fear the click and so think they don't need it, sort of an insecurity thing, especially drummers. in my opinion a drummer being able to play with a click is the same as a singer needing to sing in key - there are some singers who don't (like bono or rod stewart) but you don't want to count on it. like you said in your first post, it sounds less professional.
 
#6
I personally don’t like click tracks. They can suck the life out of the music and create an uneasy feeling in the studio if you have never used one before. If you guys are going that route you might want to consider playing to a loop or a programmed drum track to get some of the "feel" back. Most drummers I have delt with have an easyer time with a programmed conga, or cowbell groove that hints at the rhythem.

If your drummer never plays or practices with a click track you will have a lot more problems than you started with. Every time I have recorded a band that thought they wanted to use a click track the session went down hill real fast. I recommend that you practice with one first before going into the studio to see if you like it.
 
#7
Click's are also useful for ensuring you're always at the same tempo when doing multiple takes - it makes clipping parts and comping something together much easier. (And yes, that does open up teh whole world of "oh that is why it sucks! it is all split together!). But 'tis a reality we live in.

Since I almost never practice without a metronome or drum machine a click doesn't boether me.
 
#8
It goes back to if musicians focused on rehearsing/practicing together as a unit they wouldn't need a click track to begin with but since we are living in a microwave world and most(most,not all)musicians think it's all about imagery and perpetrating the sound that they really can play,but the listener shouldn't complain when they get to hear them live in concert and all they do is fall on their faces.

I support China's proposed ban on lip syncing

Invalid Link Removed
 
#10
Well, I don't think clicks are evil... they facilitate layering (as someone just said) and are really a necessity when you're incorporating loops and the like. And if you are good enough, you and your band can follow a click without sounding stiff.
It's just another tool.
I couldn't imagine, say, the Meters, Muddy Waters or Peter, Paul and Mary using a click, but that's a stylistic thing.
By the way, George Martin once said (paraphrasing here) that Ringo's time was so steady, the Beatles didn't need a click-- he was a human click track.
I can see this thread descending into a pro- or anti-ProTools screaming match any second... I hope it doesn't! :hmm:
 
#11
MakiSupaStar said:
I'm finding that as a band we're kind of shying away from the idea of using a click track to establish our songs.
Click to expand...

Establish your songs? You mean, record your songs?

I agree with Doug & threshar: there's nothing wrong with using a click. Let's face it: recording is a more technical process than playing live. Developing the requisite technical skills to enable effective recording is just part of being a well-rounded modern musician - in much the same way that acting in film is much more technical than acting on stage...

There's no reason why playing to the click has to sound stiff and mechanical - unless one's timing is so bad that he can't relax and play normally to a click...in which case the problem is his timing - not the click...

MM
 
#12
JAUQO III-X said:
It goes back to if musicians focused on rehearsing/practicing together as a unit they wouldn't need a click track to begin with but since we are living in a microwave world and most(most,not all)musicians think it's all about imagery and perpetrating the sound that they really can play,but the listener shouldn't complain when they get to hear them live in concert and all they do is fall on their faces.

I support China's proposed ban on lip syncing

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have any strong feelings on this, would you?:)

I have only limited experience working with a click (or more correctly a cowbell) track.

Although I liked the idea in concept, the practice of recording a track and then going back and layering over track after track to the click resulted in a somewhat lifeless, unenergetic sound to my ear.

I preferred to record a live band performance, and then repair/retrack if necessary, but my (ex) bandmates didn't want to do that.

My feeling is that the recorder does not lie - if you listen to the playback, and it sucks, that is because it sucked - regardless of how good you felt about it while playing.

So if we were not able to pull of a good performance, then we needed to be practicing more instead of worrying with recording. There has been a lot of great music made by people who were not using click tracks - it should be possible to do that and record it. But that's just my viewpoint.

I digress...

Anyway, I'd say, try it both ways, with and without a click, if you can afford to, and let your ears be the judge.
 
#13
JAUQO III-X said:
It goes back to if musicians focused on rehearsing/practicing together as a unit they wouldn't need a click track to begin with but since we are living in a microwave world and most(most,not all)musicians think it's all about imagery and perpetrating the sound that they really can play,but the listener shouldn't complain when they get to hear them live in concert and all they do is fall on their faces.

I support China's proposed ban on lip syncing

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...


+1.5
 
#16
wow, you've never heard of autotune?

Yes. it corrects pitch. Mostly used on vocals. Sometimes it is used sparingly to fix a nearly perfect take (maybe you nailed it but were slightly flat on one note). Or sometimes used as an effect itself - like in that Cher horror "do you believe in life after love".

Some folks have taken to using it live. Which is crazy. I recall seeing kelly osbourne on something and the autotune was going zany. Not that I had any expectations there.

http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune4.shtml
 
#18
Yeah-- Autotune is not good.
By the way, I think the effect used Cher's "Believe" was a good old Vocoder. Actually, I kind of liked that tune and her performance of it! The effect in question was just subtle enough to make someone (or me, anyway) go "huh"?
 
#20
Many different schools of thought.
I run a crappy studio, and have read about really good studios, bottom line: capture the performance of the band.
Overdubs are commonplace, think about not having to do that. Capture the nuance of the whole deal as one.
Many clients of mine learn the first take was the best when it was played with the band.
Point being- approach your recording not as an overdub process, but as capturing what you do live. That's the hardest thing in a sterile studio environment.
 

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