Cliff Burton pic

[Gluvhand]

Heavy metal and hard rock were interchangeable terms back when Purple, Sabbath, Zeppelin were duking it out. With hindsight and knowing what metal became/has become, Purple and Zeppelin are obviously not metal and Sabbath didn't embrace the term until it became lucrative for them to do so. Just my take.

 

[FC Bass]

THE bNg THAT SOLD IN AUCTION WAS 412### MINE IS 409###

None of Cliff's basses have been sold (that's what Connie told me), also it's very unlikely any will in the near future.
Edit: If there were indeed three Black n Golds, the auctioned one could be legit...

The Rickenbacker is in the Hall of fame, I think the SB1000 is also. (btw: His niece got the Rickenbacker and put in the Hall of fame)
The Black 'n Gold I with PJ Marx pickup is with Metallica (iirc spend a lot of time in Lars Ulrichs home) and the other one is with Connie
The Alembic was stolen, so that's the only Cliff bass that's "out there"

The Precision bass wasn't his, as stated before belongs (iirc still) to a TB member who was at that show.

 

[FC Bass]

Ah, I see a correction is needed...

The Aria in the Hall of fame is also a Black 'n Gold (without PJ Marx pickup and not the same Connie has) So there must have been at least 3 Black n gold basses

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I seen't it.

 

[MatronMother]

I think someone was posting earlier in this thread that Tool is probably not really Heavy Metal.

Really? TOOL, especially earlier TOOL, I consider metal.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I'm not even sure why I got into this whole "Who is or is not Heavy Metal".
TBH, I get kinda tired of everyone just saying "metal" w/o including Heavy or even capitalizing.

When I asked Lemmy if he thought Motorhead was more Punk or Heavy Metal, he said "We are Motorhead, and we play Rock & Roll mate!".

 

[MatronMother]

I'm not even sure why I got into this whole "Who is or is not Heavy Metal".
TBH, I get kinda tired of everyone just saying "metal" w/o including Heavy or even capitalizing.

When I asked Lemmy if he thought Motorhead was more Punk or Heavy Metal, he said "We are Motorhead, and we play Rock & Roll mate!".

Lemmy is God.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I didn't make that mistake again, because he raised his voice & took a disappointed tone. I can't recall if he was already doing it, but later I noticed he starts all their shows with that line.

 

[Max Blasto]

Deep Purple = not really; hard rock band.
Manowar = chumps
Motorhead = legit metal band.

a) you're wrong
b) chumps play metal all the time
c) and doin' it with a Rickenbacker

 

[cheechi]

I'm not even sure why I got into this whole "Who is or is not Heavy Metal".
TBH, I get kinda tired of everyone just saying "metal" w/o including Heavy or even capitalizing.

When I asked Lemmy if he thought Motorhead was more Punk or Heavy Metal, he said "We are Motorhead, and we play Rock & Roll mate!".

That's a pretty metal thing to say. Sorry, that's a pretty Heavy MetaL thing to say.

So on Cliff's Rick, why stack the neck pu's like that and/or why choose those pu's to stack?

 

[Korladis]

He didn't use the Rick very long. He only recorded Kill 'Em All with it and then moved on to the Aria Pro. To be fair, Cliff wasn't a traditional trash kind of guy. He was definitely instrumental in developing the style, but man was he stuck in the 60s/70s. He looked like he should have been playing for the Doobie Brothers more than what we think of as Metallica.
Ricks have enjoyed a resurgence among the Stoner/Doom/Desert bass players for its retro look and mids that work very will with dirt pedals. Personally I can't stand them. They are hard to play and look like they should come with a patch of green shag carpet and wood paneling. The visual style of the 70s gets a big fat "F" from me.

Ride the Lightening is also the Rickenbacker. He didn't start using the Spoiler and the Arias until after it was recorded.

 

[Max Blasto]

Ok so, benchmarks of heavy metal music:

Loud distorted guitars
Heavy, Driving drum beats
Riffs containing the tri-tone (bV chord)
Sometimes "screaming" vocals

Am I missing anything?

Yeah. Fans who think that anything released before 1984 doesn't qualify as metal.

 

[Korladis]

I was in High School at about the same time. Jean jackets with patches were definitely a big deal, but not with no shirt on under like the way Cliff rocked it. Bell bottom were WAY out. It was all about tight tapered jeans or leather pants. If Cliff had lived longer I would bet that he would have kicked off the retro metal/doom/stoner thing a lot earlier. He'd be all over stuff like Graveyard and Sleep.

Heh, probably. Especially as he was a pretty big stoner, apparently.

I was reading earlier but to me, Rickenbackers have one of the most awesome sounds and it is because of the pickups. I know this because years ago I "ruined" a wonderful Rick by thinking that I knew better and put a Precision and A Jazz pick up in it. No more Rick magic I STILL kick myself for doing that. If the bass was too noisy for a metal band, it wasn't because of the pick ups.

It's really more because of type of pickup and pickup location (note that Rickenbacker's pickups are not located really very close to the locations of most other basses) that give them that sound. If you put a couple '51 P-bass pickups (the single coil ones) in the Rickenbacker pickup locations, it would probably sound similar.

I would think he would have just gotten some humbucking toasters in there.

Toasters aren't humbucking.

I probably wouldn't like them then, I am not a fan of the 'hardcore' metal.....

Hardcore grew out of punk, originally, actually.

Yes. I can honestly tell the difference between Rush and Quiet Riot.

The point I'm making is that QR isn't any more heavy metal than Rush. It all kind of falls under the umbrella of metal. Some consider Zeppelin to be the first heavy metal band. Others consider Sabbath to be the first, and some even consider Cream to be heavy metal.

Some may consider Zeppelin the first metal band. The consensus of the metal scene, though, seems to be that Black Sabbath was. And in terms of influence over the gene, I think Black Sabbath is definitely at least the more influential band on metal today.

Ok so, benchmarks of heavy metal music:

Loud distorted guitars
Heavy, Driving drum beats
Riffs containing the tri-tone (bV chord)
Sometimes "screaming" vocals

Am I missing anything?

Eh, "screaming" isn't really part of all metal. Lots of heavy metal doesn't include much use of the tri-tone, either.

As with any other genre, it's sort of a loose consensus on what it is, and is really easy with obvious examples to say "that's a metal band," but harder with music that's more ambiguous as to where it fits in.

If Cliff's sister has his Aria Pros I wonder if his Rick is still floating around somewhere. The bass that recorded Anesthesia would be worth a nickle or two I'm sure.

It's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, IIRC

It's in the rock and roll hall of fame.

I seen't it.

And confirmed.

That's a pretty metal thing to say. Sorry, that's a pretty Heavy MetaL thing to say.

So on Cliff's Rick, why stack the neck pu's like that and/or why choose those pu's to stack?

Stack the neck pu's like that? There's only one neck pickup. Not sure what you mean.

Yeah. Fans who think that anything released before 1984 doesn't qualify as metal.

I know you're joking around, but the year would be like 1970.

 

[Korladis]

Anyway, personally I have always found Rickenbackers to be the best basses for use in metal. At least for me. Mostly because it's easy to get a really aggressive sound out of them.

The sound Cliff got with his Aria on Master was a bit thicker, but still pretty close the sound I go for with my Rickenbacker, actually.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Toasters aren't humbucking.

The pickups in the Laredo model are humbuckers.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

They look like toasters to me.

Hardcore grew out of punk, originally, actually.

Yeah, another one that bugs me. It's Hardcore Punk, but no one ever says Punk or capitalizes.

 

[socialleper]

a) you're wrong
b) chumps play metal all the time
c) and doin' it with a Rickenbacker

a.) You're right, they are more of a classic rock back, but I thought I'd throw them a bone.
b.) They do, but when asked the question "Is Manowat metal enough for you" then answer is an emphatic no. The are a bad joke in loin cloths that went on too long. If you have to tell everyone how metal you are by saying "I'm so metal" in every song, rather than writing about metal stuff, you aren't metal.

 

[socialleper]

Yeah. Fans who think that anything released before 1984 doesn't qualify as metal.

I don't think those exist.

 

[Korladis]

The pickups in the Laredo model are humbuckers.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

They look like toasters to me.




Yeah, another one that bugs me. It's Hardcore Punk, but no one ever says Punk or capitalizes.

They're not. Toasters are single coil pickups. The 4004 basses have HB1 humbuckers.

 

[socialleper]

Ride the Lightening is also the Rickenbacker. He didn't start using the Spoiler and the Arias until after it was recorded.

His tone on RTL is more similar to MoP than Kill 'em All. Is there any documentation establishing which bass he used on Ride?

 

[callofcthulhu]

The pickups in the Laredo model are humbuckers.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

They look like toasters to me.

They're not, they're HB-1s. Toasters have slots on top (like a toaster).

Stack the neck pu's like that? There's only one neck pickup. Not sure what you mean.

I think he means that the jazz pickup at the bridge is a "neck" pickup.

Can't confirm that it is, but usually the neck pickup is smaller which would make it easier to fit under the Rick assembly.