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Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 13)

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Well, maybe I'm being too specific, but to me, hype has connotations of being agenda driven and/or at least undeserved praise, as opposed to truly deserved praise. While Jimmy has had some problems as described here, the praise he's been given by at least myself and Ken are well deserved.

I'm not the greatest bassist in the world, and never will be. Truly, I'm just competent. BUT, I've been through a LOT of top basses over the years, so I know "the good stuff" when I see it, hear it, and feel it.

That said...

IMHO, that's only 1/2 true. Otherwise we'd all be playing $50 Sam's Club specials.

You're absolutely right the bass is nothing without the player, but I also firmly believe there's a certain quality level that more often inspires the player to really become one with the instrument, and truly enable them to play more freely what they feel and hear in their heads with less distraction. I personally think all tools in all occupations can have this same attribute, though with basses, and this is the tricky part, it isn't strictly reserved to the high end. I've played straight up J's that stand up to the best stuff out there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not into palm readers and such, and I know full well even my LG might be a "meh" to some guys, since this is such a subjective thing. I'm just saying a luthier, like a musician, is an artist and a craftsman. If they get it "just right" it really does result in the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

IMHO, anyway.
i guess theres just a certain part of the high end thing i dont really like. there was a guy talking about an mtd and how it made him play so much better. i dont buy it. and since mtd's hurt my hand, there must be something wrong with my technique because mtds are crafted with the highest ergonomics..:rolleyes:

obviously if theres playability issues, that can hold you back from "what you hear in your head" but excellent playability can be had with a 50 dollar sams club special with a trip to your local repairman. you may find that the tone sucks, but if you really are a creative type, should tone really prevent you from creating inspired music? i get into this stuff with guitar players. lets make the band secondary so you can get "your tone";)

these posts like " my whositswhatsit bass absolutely killed all my other "insert uber expensive bass here" are kind of silly.
 
i guess theres just a certain part of the high end thing i dont really like. there was a guy talking about an mtd and how it made him play so much better. i dont buy it. and since mtd's hurt my hand, there must be something wrong with my technique because mtds are crafted with the highest ergonomics..:rolleyes:
Nah, that's just the subjective part. Could be for him the stuff that's magic in your hands hurts his. :) Case in point, the smaller more slender necks feel best to me, but I've spoken to folks who actually have pain with the skinny stuff and literally need a larger neck profile to be truly comfortable. That was a revelation for me about 5 years ago. Really took me aback.

That said, and take this for what its worth, but the first time I played a bass that sounded or played far superior to other stuff I was used to, not only did my playing take a jump for the better, but I loved the sound so much more that my inspiration was also significantly improved. At least for me, physical and tonal comfort have a very significant tangible positive affect on my musical output.

obviously if theres playability issues, that can hold you back from "what you hear in your head" but excellent playability can be had with a 50 dollar sams club special with a trip to your local repairman. you may find that the tone sucks, but if you really are a creative type, should tone really prevent you from creating inspired music? i get into this stuff with guitar players. lets make the band secondary so you can get "your tone";)
Yeah, this is why I referred to it as the tricky part, because as we are really both saying, you don't have to spend a bajillion bux to get a great bass, but if you are spending that kinda' money, the assurance you're getting a great bass should be pretty much a guarantee. That's why people like Jimmy get such a swollen black eye any time something isn't at the expected level of perfection. Once you set the bar, you'll always be measure by it. You can't go back.

However, to your second point, there's two things... one is about being a professional, and the other is about the level of one's performance... even remaining within the "being a professional" zone.

Being a professional means you make the best of what you have, and you're competent to at least make good quality music as long as you're using tools that function reasonably. But I think that's the baseline of the range. You do a good job, you create a groove, the rest of the band does NOT suffer, but it's not your very best stuff. For your very best stuff, you need the tools that feel and sound best to you.

To me, and I think to you, the music (entire band) DOES come first. I know what you're saying about "those people", and I have little tolerance for them as well. If I'm not 100.00% thrilled with my tone/playability, I deal with it and move on as professionally as I can.

these posts like " my whositswhatsit bass absolutely killed all my other "insert uber expensive bass here" are kind of silly.
Agreed... I try to avoid sweeping statements like that because there's so much stuff that makes a comment like that really subject to specific conditions. If I do feel such a comparison is useful to make, I always try to include some specifics about in which ways I felt one worked better (such as a tonal attribute or functional feature) and why (maybe the venue or style of music, etc). Otherwise, it's not good for information, but maybe at least good for a laugh. :)
 
Wow someone has a slight case of the snippys today..:smug::D:D Only messing with ya..
If you are in LA..as you are when you go to NAMM , all you would need to do is go to the shop as i did and pick out the piece of wood that you want..
I didnt do that for my Inca Silver one that Chef has now. Even though it sounds and plays great it was slightly not what i wanted.
Its really that simple!!
Thats what i did.
One just needs to take the initiative and plan if they are in the area.
You make it sound as if i have a magic wand or something. Well I do but dont tell anyone.:smug:
And it is very hard to hold to 9 pounds.. Roger is able to do that , but he chambers his alder bodies ... Although my friend has an chambered sadowsky that is very lightweight. Alder has been getting heavier in recent years. So to do a full size body as Jimmy does and to get it under 9 takes time to hunt for light wood.. and is nearly impossible.. I did say nearly since i think all things are possible :D
I went through a pile of wood and thought i found one piece , knocked on it and it was not pinging the way i like , so i looked some more. I spent a few hours...So Jimmy is right about the 9 pound thing... But I looked myself. .I would not think ask him to take time from other things that needed to be done to find a piece of wood just for me. That would be ridiculous... And besides he would tell me to go #(*& myself.
So dont make it sound like Jason or I get something super fantastic for free. I did my own hunting and gathering and gave him the piece of wood to cook up into a bass.



Well, that's great!... for you...

Problem is, most people don't get that kinda' access and those kinda' options. I know I've spoken to Jimmy a few times about getting an LM built that would net a 9 pound max final weight and he basically told me there wasn't much chance of that (when in fact I know there's plenty of ash out there that both sounds good and also doesn't weigh the usual ton even with his full body sizes).

Now to give him his due, I'm sure if I pushed him, he'd manage to find something, but I still got the impression it'd be really hard to hold it to 9 pounds... that he'd "try", but not really be able to give me any assurance. I understand his tonal goals and intentions, but as I think we're seeing here, there's a LARGE market of folks that aren't willing to put up with the super heavy basses... because we shouldn't have to anymore... as proven by lots of other basses... including some Jimmy has built himself (and apparently is now building for you). So why did I get the distinct impression from him that'd be such a problem?

I guess my main point is, I really feel he should be offering the same things to all his customers that he seems to be offering to you and Jason, and it doesn't seem that's the case.
 
One just needs to take the initiative and plan if they are in the area.
You make it sound as if i have a magic wand or something. Well I do but dont tell anyone.:smug:
And it is very hard to hold to 9 pounds.. I went through a pile of wood and thought i found one piece , knocked on it and it was not pinging the way i like , so i looked some more. So Jimmy is right about the 8 pound thing... But I looked myself. .I would not think ask him to take time from other things that needed to be done to find a piece of wood just for me. That would be ridiculous... And besides he would tell me to go #(*& myself.
So dont make it sound like Jason or I get something super fantastic for free. I did my own hunting and gathering and gave him the piece of wood to cook up into a bass.

Isnt that specifically why you pay $$$ for a boutique instrument? You have to fly to CA to pick out a good piece of wood?
 
ummm no! :rollno:
A good piece of wood is subjective.. as i wrote earlier, Tom Barney would think the light piece that i like is junk... He likes it real Heavy.

They are all good.. its just a matter of preference for the individual.


Isnt that specifically why you pay $$$ for a boutique instrument? You have to fly to CA to pick out a good piece of wood?
 
I know you all know this... Dont forget, all wood is different. Same species will vary from tree to tree. There are no two pieces the same... Not like a plastic mold .. Just about all Steinbergers were 8 pounds.. But they were of man made materials...
Talking with alot of guys in traveling many like the heavier bass bodies. I dont know why, but they do. They like that 70s Fender J heavy ash...
 
Exactly. I wouldn't think it would be too much to expect that for a $4k+ instrument, the builder/luthier would have the experience and skill to pick out a particular piece of lumber to fill the requirement of a custom order. That's really not too much to ask at this level.
 
:smug:I got the GOLD.

In spite of my whining and wimpering and numb leg this morning THIS BABY is off the hook.

I recorded this afternoon with it against some other great basses ( 72 Jazz, Ken Smith 6, Fender Custom Classic 5, Custom Artist RH 5 ) and the ALLEVA wiped them out.

ODDLY, now that the bass has settled down ( I tweaked it and it is very warm weather here today-action is GREAT, AND old strings still ) it plays and executes all of my ideas BETTER than all of the basses.:bassist:

I played many styles and the ALLEVA kills from finger to slap without even as much as a sweat.

WEIGHT, I can live with if a bass sounds this GREAT.
I''l just have to increase my workout routine.

YUP I am 360 on this bass now.
All of the hype and kudos I have read have finally been jusitified. She is a keeper. I do I do;)

And by the way SHE IS A BEAUTY..see her on the ALLEVA site under LM Deluxe 5 in all her glory !!:hyper:

Glad to hear it! I really feel bad for the ones who have to go by the internet or opinions of others when trying a brand.

For me A-C's are not a hype, but that's because I got to try one before I decided to order one. So I guess that depends on the individual situation.
 
I hear what everyone is saying about being able to specify the weight, specially at this price range... But I think we have to be reasonable and at least give a + or - range to it. I wouldn't feel comfortable assuring or guaranteeing someone that their bass is going to be 9 lbs. flat. If you're flexible on the delivery time and are willing to wait for the right piece of wood that would yield the perfect weight then I'm sure it can happen.

Jimmy buys a certain amount of wood at a time, he can't exactly go to the lumberyard to pick 2 body halves cause of an order... They come in batches.

I've also never heard him specifically say that the LM's will be heavier going forward... That just happened to be the supply of Ash he had at the time... Now he's out of Ash, let's see what the next batch brings.
 
Just popping in to ask a quick question (since I'm sure you guys would most readily know), but is there a price list, so that I can know just how out of my price range AC basses are? Can't find anything of the sort on their website. I'm sure I could contact them, but I'd feel sorta silly over it, not (within the immediate future) having any plans on buying anything. Thanks!
 
I hear what everyone is saying about being able to specify the weight, specially at this price range... But I think we have to be reasonable and at least give a + or - range to it.
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but when you talk to Jimmy, the impression you get is, he'll try, but it could still come in realistically closer to 10... as opposed to maybe 8.75 to 9.25.

That said, it is NOT hard for a luthier to get very very close. All it takes is a few times sampling what weight a body blank is before processing and then measuring the bass when done, and boom... you have your reference point, and you can extrapolate from there very easily. I know multiple builders and luthiers who can (and do) do this and pretty much nail the weight spec'd. Case in point, FOUR J style basses I JUST received this spring/summer, none chambered, and three were ash bodies. All literally between 8.9 and 9.1 pounds. :p :)

And Kirk, I luv ya man, but I gotta go with Dave Hill on the response to your post. Yeah, I personally would have the opps to go to his shop at least once a year, but that should not at all be relevant. :)
 
I have a suggestion for Jimmy...

I totally get what kind of person he is. Very artistic, very very laid back about stuff... maybe even to the point of bothering some potential customers with the way he interacts. To be very honest, I think that personality is part of why he can do as well as he does with the art of building his basses.

IMHO, what he needs is a person to be a "business frontman". Field all the questions, give the kind of specific answers people want to hear, and relate the importance of serving detailed specification requests... maybe even be the shop champion for the customer and do the wood search Jimmy is hesitant to do. Stay on top of emails and maybe even phone calls, etc.

That way, Jimmy could focus totally on just the instrument building, and his customers/prospects would generally have a better experience.

Just a thought. Bottom line, despite my somewhat crotchety responses today relative to my more typical post, I DO want to see Jimmy succeed in a big way. I see what he can do, and I want him to keep doing it, and do it more. :)
 
And Kirk, I luv ya man, but I gotta go with Dave Hill on the response to your post. Yeah, I personally would have the opps to go to his shop at least once a year, but that should not at all be relevant. :)

Hey, you make that sound regretfull...
I really find it hard to believe that Jimmy can't make a bass close to a specified weight, and frankly, I think that YCBass' statement that the weight of the LM de jour depends on the batch of ash he has at that moment is almost absurd... I would hope.
 
I have a suggestion for Jimmy...

I totally get what kind of person he is. Very artistic, very very laid back about stuff... maybe even to the point of bothering some potential customers with the way he interacts. To be very honest, I think that personality is part of why he can do as well as he does with the art of building his basses.

IMHO, what he needs is a person to be a "business frontman". Field all the questions, give the kind of specific answers people want to hear, and relate the importance of serving detailed specification requests... maybe even be the shop champion for the customer and do the wood search Jimmy is hesitant to do. Stay on top of emails and maybe even phone calls, etc.

That way, Jimmy could focus totally on just the instrument building, and his customers/prospects would generally have a better experience.

Just a thought. Bottom line, despite my somewhat crotchety responses today relative to my more typical post, I DO want to see Jimmy succeed in a big way. I see what he can do, and I want him to keep doing it, and do it more. :)

Yes. IME, a "very artisitic/ savvy business frontman" will be a vary rare thing to find in any field. In the bass world, you'd be lucky to find maybe 1 ro 2.
 
Hey, you make that sound regretfull...
I really find it hard to believe that Jimmy can't make a bass close to a specified weight, and frankly, I think that YCBass' statement that the weight of the LM de jour depends on the batch of ash he has at that moment is almost absurd... I would hope.
Regretful that I agree with you? For the record, not at all! :)

Yes. IME, a "very artisitic/ savvy business frontman" will be a very rare thing to find in any field. In the bass world, you'd be lucky to find maybe 1 ro 2.
+1
 
Hey, you make that sound regretfull...
I really find it hard to believe that Jimmy can't make a bass close to a specified weight, and frankly, I think that YCBass' statement that the weight of the LM de jour depends on the batch of ash he has at that moment is almost absurd... I would hope.

How is my statement absurd or almost absurd? When I chose the Ash for mine, the lightest half I could find was 7.xx lbs. and I chose the 2 lightest pieces as the rest were 8 lbs. and above... And I'm in the camp of wanting a slightly heavier instrument. That's what he had at the time. So as I referred to earlier, if the wood is not available at the moment then you gotta wait til he gets more. It's easy to make statements or assumptions when you're not there looking at the wood.

I never said Jimmy wouldn't try to get as close to your desired weight as possible, but to commit to something would be a bit hard when nobody is willing to accept it when he says, "I will try." If you have builders out there that are willing to commit to an exact weight then you should order with them.
 
when i was considering getting a bass from him, he would tell me he would build me a 20 pound bass if i wanted, but i would try and get him to give me an assurance it would land in a specific weight range (11 pound area) i couldnt pin him down at all. the lm's were still in the 9 pound range at that time. now all of a sudden theyre all heavy:eek:

id get the same thing when id ask for a price.. "so whats the price of an lm with x,y and z specs?" the reply... "start saving". me- "no really whats the price?" response "alot" ugh:help:

ALAS:hiding:

A few days back I mentioned that I found it difficult getting specific answers from Jimmy--and it was mainly pricing for certain models ( standard, Deluxe, Custom etc. etc. ) and a lot of his responses were vague....
NOT CLEAR.

2 fellow TBers took exception to that statement and found dealings with Jimmy were consistently CLEAR..

well I guess sometimes he is and sometimes he is not..

I guess we should not forget Jimmy is only human too--just like the rest of us :D
 
ALAS:hiding:

A few days back I mentioned that I found it difficult getting specific answers from Jimmy--and it was manily pricing for certain models ( standard, Deluxe, Custom etc. etc. ) and a lot of his responses were vague....
NOT CLEAR.

2 fellow TBers took exception to that statement and found dealings with Jimmy were consistently CLEAR..

well I guess sometimes he is and sometimes he is not..

I guess we should not forget Jimmy is only human too--just like the rest of us :D

i think some guys who are just very entrenched with a company feel like there can be no wrong done. happens in all the club threads.
 
:smug:I got the GOLD.

In spite of my whining and wimpering and numb leg this morning THIS BABY is off the hook.

I recorded this afternoon with it against some other great basses ( 72 Jazz, Ken Smith 6, Fender Custom Classic 5, Custom Artist RH 5 ) and the ALLEVA wiped them out.

ODDLY, now that the bass has settled down ( I tweaked it and it is very warm weather here today-action is GREAT, AND old strings still ) it plays and executes all of my ideas BETTER than all of the basses.:bassist:

I played many styles and the ALLEVA kills from finger to slap without even as much as a sweat.

WEIGHT, I can live with if a bass sounds this GREAT.
I''l just have to increase my workout routine.

YUP I am 360 on this bass now.
All of the hype and kudos I have read have finally been jusitified. She is a keeper. I do I do;)

And by the way SHE IS A BEAUTY..see her on the ALLEVA site under LM Deluxe 5 in all her glory !!:hyper:

My reaction and posts were very similar when the LM5 arrived, no shame in it!
 
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