Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 14)

[Chef]

That time is recovered when the unfinished parts are used to bump someone on the 14 month wait list up to, say, now-ish.

Which would be much better for business than...this...is.

 

[KJung]

Time spent on making the neck and body can not be recovered either.. Just saying..
Do you think it is easy selling $$$$ basses in this economy

Nope. A body and neck can be easily moved to someone else's order.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Do you think it is easy selling $$$$ basses in this economy

Fodera, MTD, Alleva Coppolo, etc.., all have big wait times. Something must be working!

 

[tombowlus]

If you give a lawyer a retainer.. that lawyer keeps the retainer even if all the money isnt used up... at least from my experience..

If this has been your experience, then you should switch to a different attorney. :scowl:

Unused portions of a retainer should definitely be returned to the client.

And as far as a band getting paid for a gig that canceled due to rain or whatever, that is an entirely different scenario. That band committed their time - which they cannot get back - and unforeseen & uncontrollable forces prevented the performance from occurring. In this case, the builder isn't really out anything, presuming that the bass can be made and sold to another player at fair price.

 

[Hollow Man]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that at all, and find it 100% unacceptable, for all the reasons I've mentioned earlier.

If this is in fact accurate-and I'm not trying to call anyone out; it's just that this is all second and third hand info here on a forum-then this is not someone I'd choose do business with anymore.

This seems to be a lose/lose position for everyone involved in terms of good, or even fair to both parties, business practice.
Perhaps there's something I'm misunderstanding here...

+1 to all this.

I've heard a couple of negative stories like this regarding Coppolos, and honestly, that did feed into me selling my LG5 to switch to another boutique Jazz. Make no mistake, my bass was wonderfully built, but I'm a big believer in being able to recommend what you play, and I found that I was having trouble doing so with my A-C.

 

[vision]

here is the last email from Jimmy.
My text in black & his answers in red .

 

[bassarama]

All I can say is WOW.

I am very depressed about all of this......

There is likely going to be an ensuing sunami from this below the surface quake.

I have been in business and a professional player for many years and I have dealt with most luthiers/manufacturers out there including Fodera, Ken Smith, Modulus, Pedulla, Tobias, MTD and Spector for example and this I have never seen--ever.

Before I became an MTD dealer, I ordered a yellow MTD 535 from Mike in about 1997. I got impatient waiting and my taste had changed to get a TYLER bass. I called Mike and he promptly issued me my $800 deposit and then when I became a dealer in 1998 I took on his Tobias line and later his MTD line.

Now that is good business IMO.

Yes fellow AC brothers I am very sad and disappointed to read what I have read today

 

[Vic]

To at least try to be fair to Jimmy (putting my flack jacket on here), I can see his concerns about time spent and not currently having a 4 banger on order. However, I can't imagine it'd be such a long time before he'd get an order for an LG4, right?

I can see his point about not being a retailer, but it seems to me that concern has already been addressed by icemangee's willingness to wait for a sale to get the full deposit back.

FWIW, what I'd think would be cool for all, is finish the bass out as a Basic with the most typical/generally appealing finish (like I said, a standard burst), and put it up on the site here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Maybe knock a tiny bit off the standard price for a quick sale (if desired), and settle up when it sells. I just don't see a sensible reason for anybody to be out any significant money on this.

 

[narud]

All I can say is WOW.

I am very depressed about all of this......

There is likely going to be an ensuing sunami from this below the surface quake.

I have been in business and a professional player for many years and I have dealt with most luthiers/manufacturers out there including Fodera, Ken Smith, Modulus, Pedulla, Tobias, MTD and Spector for example and this I have never seen--ever.

Before I became an MTD dealer, I ordered a yellow MTD 535 from Mike in about 1997. I got impatient waiting and my taste had changed to get a TYLER bass. I called Mike and he promptly issued me my $800 deposit and then when I became a dealer in 1998 I took on his Tobias line and later his MTD line.

Now that is good business IMO.

Yes fellow AC brothers I am very sad and disappointed to read what I have read today

i had a similar situation with chris stambaugh. i ordered two basses. a narrow spaced nordstrand and a narrow spaced 33" stambaugh. when i got the nordy i realized i probably wouldnt need both basses (i got dumb after i got the bread from selling my fodera). i asked him if it would be possible to sell my place in the queue to someone else if he hadnt already started the build. turns out he had already glued up the neck. without me asking, he offered to refund my deposit minus 5% (justifiable, because i took a ton of his time discussing specs). i felt blessed that he was willing to do that and i ended up getting like 1150 of my 1200 deposit back.

 

[slopeshoulder]

If buyers are told the deposit is unrefundable, it is unrefundable. IMO there are good reasons for a manufacturer to have an unrefundable deposit policy (to protect themselves from fickleness on the part of buyers). Commitment is commitment. A deposit reduces but does not eliminate a manufacturer's risk. I side with Jimmy.
FWIW, I once ordered a guitar that costs $25K, my largest purchase ever. I wrote a deposit check for $2K and bought the builder dinner. Five days later I lost my job. That was four years ago. I never got my deposit, I never asked. I did ask if I could "sell" my place in line. I never recived an answer. As far as the builder is concerned, I am still on his list and can give him the go ahead at any time. But I never will. Not his problem. It sucks, but I get it.

 

[lovefist]

Any thoughts on the Yo-Shortie?

 

[svtb15]

I would think so too... How do you sue a lawyer..

:scowl:

Unused portions of a retainer should definitely be returned to the client.

 

[svtb15]

His website says No refunds.. Thats pretty clear.
Like i said i don't have a dog in this fight... Been out of town and just read it here..
But if i made a order for something, a product or a service , and i couldn't honor my end of the deal to follow through.. I would not expect a refund.. It would be me that screwed the pooch.. My fault not the manufacturers..
He could have spent the time working on another bass instead of making a neck and body for this persons bass.. I have watched how long it takes to do the process by hand and by CNC.
The CNC is not a 100% set and go sort of thing. It takes time..So instead of him maybe finishing a bass for someone else in line, he spent it on this.. And the body and neck creating is the major part of the bass.. after that its all down hill...
Just saying.. I don't think you all know what it takes...

Hes not in the business to loose money..
Again Just sayin'...

 

[Chef]

I guess I'm unclear on why this body and neck can't be used to fill another order...???

 

[sps500]

There must be a better way for everybody. Jimmy is a nice guy and I'd rather not see his brand take a hit by this incident. I sympathize with Icemangee as well losing his income is no fun especially in this economy.

Anybody out there want a LG4? If I didn't have an order in I would take it!

 

[svtb15]

Its too bad that he lost his job... we all loose jobs... it happens.. If i ordered a new car. left a deposit.. and lost my job... They get the car in but it is not prepped yet...would i get the deposit back?
Or if my house was to have a new roof put on. .but it burns down the week before the work starts . .would i get the deposit back? I dunno?

He may have already put 15 or more hours into making the neck, the body , the back and forth conversations about AAAAA top or not to AAAAA top a 1600.

I don't understand why everyone is so eager to freely give away the time and talent of a builder ....

 

[sps500]

I don't understand why everyone is so eager to freely give away the time and talent of a builder ....(Quote)

I think what everyone is trying in their own way is to find an amicable way out for everyone.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Its too bad that he lost his job... we all loose jobs... it happens.. If i ordered a new car. left a deposit.. and lost my job... They get the car in but it is not prepped yet...would i get the deposit back?
Or if my house was to have a new roof put on. .but it burns down the week before the work starts . .would i get the deposit back? I dunno?

He may have already put 15 or more hours into making the neck, the body , the back and forth conversations about AAAAA top or not to AAAAA top a 1600.

I don't understand why everyone is so eager to freely give away the time and talent of a builder ....

I think what most people are saying is that the cost of the time investment that Jimmy has already put in can be passed on to the customer that buys that bass when it's completed.

Using the neck and body that has already been cut will create the return on Jimmy's investment once it's sold and icemangee's money can then be returned.

If Jimmy keeps icemangee's deposit and finishes the bass and sells it, will the bass be sold at a discount since money has already been spent towards it? If not, then I would think icemangee should receive his money back since another customer will be paying full price for said instrument.

 

[Vic]

I don't understand why everyone is so eager to freely give away the time and talent of a builder ....

But NOBODY is saying that.

Hes not in the business to loose money..
Again Just sayin'...

...and AGAIN, he doesn't have to. That was never suggested, and absolutely need not happen.

 

[smperry]

Just as PMs are meant to be private, the same should go for email communication. For that reason, I've deleted the personal communication as requested by the builder. Perhaps he will chime in here directly, as he is certainly welcome to.