Club Alleva Coppolo (part 2)

[GRoberts]

I'm curious, what does the Dalbergia bring to the equation? Is that the wood used in old Vintage Fenders? How does it compare to a good Braz rosewood available today?

 

[svtb15]

It doesn't compare to the Braz that is used today in my opinion.. you can see whn you look at it..there are many different types of rosewood... from what i have read and understand from talking with some wood brokers is that this dalergia negra is THEE stuff that fender used back in the day... it is very hard to find.. this stuff was cut maybe 45 years ago or so... the smell when it is sanded is sort of like roses...

 

[KJung]

I'm curious, what does the Dalbergia bring to the equation? Is that the wood used in old Vintage Fenders? How does it compare to a good Braz rosewood available today?

From what I understand, Dalbergia is just another name for Brazilian Rosewood. 'Fresh cut' Brazilian Rosewood is no longer available, although there is 'stump reclamation' Brazilian RW being used by some luthiers to great effect (Nordstrand, for example). Since the stumps have been sitting there for many years, my guess is the 'stump cut' Brazilian RW is pretty darn close to the old Brazilian that Jimmy is using.

That being said, I can see if this was fresh cut wood that has been aging for 40-50 years that it would command a premium.

 

[GRoberts]

It doesn't compare to the Braz that is used today in my opinion.. you can see whn you look at it..there are many different types of rosewood... from what i have read and understand from talking with some wood brokers is that this dalergia negra is THEE stuff that fender used back in the day... it is very hard to find.. this stuff was cut maybe 45 years ago or so... the smell when it is sanded is sort of like roses...

Thanks! When you say it doesn't compare to Braz Rosewood today, are you saying Dalergia Negra is better, or just more period accurate? (or both) ..What would be the next best rosewood is another question as I am contemplating placing an order for an LG-5.

 

[KJung]

Thanks! When you say it doesn't compare to Braz Rosewood today, are you saying Dalergia Negra is better, or just more period accurate? (or both) ..What would be the next best rosewood is another question as I am contemplating placing an order for an LG-5.

For recently cut wood, the madagascar RW is quite similar to the Brazilian RW... lot's of grain, a little oily, kind of a soft feel... wonderful stuff. It's commonly available (Roger Sadowsky uses it on some of his NYC models, and it's the wood on my NYC RV5 that I've posted... very red, lot's of grain and swirl...really nice. It's should be only a small upcharge.

If Jimmy can get his hands on the stump cut reclamation Brazilian RW, that would be my suggestion though... that stuff the Carey Nordstrand is using is the best I've ever seen, and it's just a minor cost upgrade (maybe $100 or so).

IMO!

 

[GRoberts]

For recently cut wood, the madagascar RW is quite similar to the Brazilian RW... lot's of grain, a little oily, kind of a soft feel... wonderful stuff. It's commonly available (Roger Sadowsky uses it on some of his NYC models, and it's the wood on my NYC RV5 that I've posted... very red, lot's of grain and swirl...really nice. It's should be only a small upcharge.

If Jimmy can get his hands on the stump cut reclamation Brazilian RW, that would be my suggestion though... that stuff the Carey Nordstrand is using is the best I've ever seen, and it's just a minor cost upgrade (maybe $100 or so).

IMO!

Thanks Ken!

 

[Basseroni]

Man im sorry to be rude but that headstock is ....they should really think about something else

That headstock is Jimmy's own design. It's different from a lot of other boutique jazz headstocks which I think is a great thing.

 

[Bernie Connors]

I can't wait to hear what you order, Gary!

 

[GRoberts]

I can't wait to hear what you order, Gary!

I may very well order a clone on Bernie's AC. I am still contemplating, but I think I will call Jimmy today or tomorrow to get the ball rolling. Tommix's Sunburst 4 just pushed me over the edge. Although that oly white LG5 he traded recently is equally beautiful. And Kens Gold LM-5 with the Maple board and mint PG is just perfect. I was thinking about ordering a Gold LG-5 with Rosewood FB and matching headstock, but I really think Gold works best with Maple FB's.

 

[svtb15]

I may have been over hyper as usual.. Like I said I have to cut back on my lattes'. New Years resolution....


I sort of jumped ahead and am acting with my limited knowledge… Dalbergia is Brazilian…

I guess I meant to say that it is different than some of the Brazilian that is currently available today..
When its gone there is no more. There are a few suppliers that still have the old stuff that fender used back in the day.. but it is $$$.. Fodera was charging a huge premium for it at one time.. rightfully so..

There is a limited supply since it is supposedly no longer able to be harvested…
Stump wood is available from what I understand too.. Im sure it is just as nice. I am not an expert.. but I would think that stump wood would have a different grain, texture, density, and/or moisture content than trunk wood does.. and since it is at the base of the tree i would think grain compression from all the weight above would make some difference.. Just my assumption..

The stuff that I have seen on the shelf at AC is old growth and old cut.. Its not that its Better.. It is different.. and period correct…

I wish I had the “Cha Ching “to order a bass with it…
It looks like the way old fenders used to look when I would see them in stores many years ago.. Folks I am old!
So if you want period correct that is the stuff…. What actually sounds better is very subjective.. I don’t know.. I have Maple on my LG5 so go figure..

EDIT One of the things that i noticed it the look of the stuff on the AC, it is real dark, almost black, the grain is tight, has a chocolatey sort of smell.
Some others that i have seen have a slight maybe fishy type smell... and the grain is not as tight..
Which is better I dont know.. but i like this old stuff. now if i could only afford it..
Nowadys,I understand that alot of goes or went to perfume makers, the trunk of the tree which is at the bottom is the newest/wettest part of the tree was of no use to the perfume makers and went to cabinet makers and instument makers. I recently learned some of this from Jimmy and attending NAMM this year...

I do know that jimmy paid thousands for the stock he has.. I mean thousands of $$.. It will eventually be gone and is getting more and more rare... I wish i had the cash to get one of those boards for my kbp5...

Thanks! When you say it doesn't compare to Braz Rosewood today, are you saying Dalergia Negra is better, or just more period accurate? (or both) ..What would be the next best rosewood is another question as I am contemplating placing an order for an LG-5.

 

[KJung]

I may have been over hyper as usual.. Like I said I have to cut back on my lattes'. New Years resolution....


I sort of jumped ahead and am acting with my limited knowledge… Dalbergia is Brazilian…

I guess I meant to say that it is different than some of the Brazilian that is currently available today..
When its gone there is no more. There are a few suppliers that still have the old stuff that fender used back in the day.. but it is $$$.. Fodera was charging a huge premium for it at one time.. rightfully so..

There is a limited supply since it is supposedly no longer able to be harvested…
Stump wood is available from what I understand too.. Im sure it is just as nice. I am not an expert.. but I would think that stump wood would have a different grain, texture, density, and/or moisture content than trunk wood does.. and since it is at the base of the tree i would think grain compression from all the weight above would make some difference.. Just my assumption..

The stuff that I have seen on the shelf at AC is old growth and old cut.. Its not that its Better.. It is different.. and period correct…

I wish I had the “Cha Ching “to order a bass with it…
It looks like the way old fenders used to look when I would see them in stores many years ago.. Folks I am old!
So if you want period correct that is the stuff…. What actually sounds better is very subjective.. I don’t know.. I have Maple on my LG5 so go figure..

+1... I think we are saying the same thing. Brazilian RW cut 50 years ago is a special thing, and you won't see much of it. I can understand the big bucks.

For those of us who aren't quite nuts enough to do a $1,500 upcharge for a board, the stump cut Brazilian RW, the Honduran (I think that's what is on Mike's bass), and the very nice Madagascar varieties are pretty darn nice!!!!

 

[svtb15]

+2 I have to tell ya i love the redness of the Honduran RW.

+1... I think we are saying the same thing. Brazilian RW cut 50 years ago is a special thing, and you won't see much of it. I can understand the big bucks.

For those of us who aren't quite nuts enough to do a $1,500 upcharge for a board, the stump cut Brazilian RW, the Honduran (I think that's what is on Mike's bass), and the very nice Madagascar varieties are pretty darn nice!!!!

 

[Bernie Connors]

I may very well order a clone on Bernie's AC. I am still contemplating, but I think I will call Jimmy today or tomorrow to get the ball rolling. Tommix's Sunburst 4 just pushed me over the edge. Although that oly white LG5 he traded recently is equally beautiful. And Kens Gold LM-5 with the Maple board and mint PG is just perfect. I was thinking about ordering a Gold LG-5 with Rosewood FB and matching headstock, but I really think Gold works best with Maple FB's.

Well any of those would be a hit!

I'm partial to the Sunburst of course!

 

[GRoberts]

Well any of those would be a hit!

I'm partial to the Sunburst of course!

Bernie, Did you go for Nitro? I am wondering what the benefits of Nitro are, and what about the neck? Should I opt for Nitro on the neck? I love the satin finish on my Nordy. Not sure if it's poly, or what? Don't think it's nitro.

 

[DrGroovenstein]

Bernie, Did you go for Nitro? I am wondering what the benefits of Nitro are, and what about the neck? Should I opt for Nitro on the neck? I love the satin finish on my Nordy. Not sure if it's poly, or what? Don't think it's nitro.

Sadowsky basses have nitro on the neck, I believe. Feels good to me.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Bernie, Did you go for Nitro? I am wondering what the benefits of Nitro are, and what about the neck? Should I opt for Nitro on the neck? I love the satin finish on my Nordy. Not sure if it's poly, or what? Don't think it's nitro.

Hey Gary,

Yeah, I went with Nitro. Many people believe it allows the wood to breathe more. That's up for debate and not necessarily why I went with Nitro. For the Sunburst finish, I just feel it's right to go with Nitro. It's authentic and exactly what this bass needs. It'll age wonderfully too!

I also went with Nitro on the neck. My old Nordy had Nitro on the neck and it was a great feeling finish. I'm not sure how the Nitro Jimmy uses compares to what Carey used, but I'm sure it's great. I have no reservations in going with it! He recommended it too so it's cool.

Yeah, Carey uses satin on the neck unless you decide to go with a Nitro finish. That's an upcharge so if you didn't specify it, I'm sure it's not Nitro.

From what I hear, all of Jimmys' finishes are available in Poly or Nitro. I haven't asked him so you'll want to check with him on that.

For me, Nitro just fits the theme of what Jimmy is going for to a T!!

 

[NYJimmy]

Thanks! When you say it doesn't compare to Braz Rosewood today, are you saying Dalergia Negra is better, or just more period accurate? (or both) ..What would be the next best rosewood is another question as I am contemplating placing an order for an LG-5.

Hi everybody just checking in and though you'd all like my experience with Brazilian rosewood.
Let’s start here with a few known facts: Rosewood has about 600 different species. The botanical name for Brazilian rosewood is Dalbergianigra. This species of rosewood grows sporadically throughout Brazil. One could walk six miles in one direction and not see one of these trees at all and then walk a mile or two in another direction and see a few together. So it’s hit or miss and it adds to the scarcity of the species. Worth mentioning, there is a lot of Jacaranda rosewood growing in Brazil that some people mistake for Dalbergianegri.
Here’s a few tips to determine what old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood is. They are real obvious to me and I’m sure to other instrument builders and wood workers. Here goes:
Color- Old growth boards range from orange to burgundy to dark chocolate to almost black with no middle ground. Sometimes it will even have a hint of dark green.
Density- The old growth boards when tapped almost sound like you’re tapping on glass.
Smell (and this is the dead giveaway) -Old cut boards have a strong sweet, flowery, chocolate smell.
The stronger the smell the older the wood, no ifs ands or buts about it. The reasons for the strong smell are for one, a result of the trees decay process. Or in other words a mature tree that hit its peak. The other reason for the scent is that it’s the tree's natural defense against bugs. There is a chemical inside the tree that does this. The scent maybe pleasant to us but it’s not pleasing to insects.
Bottom line: Smell intensity, color and density are the real giveaways.
The old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood I have fits all these requirements. Only a few boards left by the way.

Here’s what I can say about the Brazilian rosewood you see available today.1st and for most it’s all new growth probably cut in the late 90's. Its grey brown color is the dead giveaway that the tree was young when it was cut. The majority of a tree that is cut today is used for perfume. The part that is left for instrument builders and cabinet makers is three feet from the buttress up to the first branch. Basically wet useless scraps.

I hope this helps describe the wood I have and clears any confusion as to what old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood is.
PS: Beware of auction sites when hunting this wood down.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Well there you have it guys! Right from the man himself...

 

[GRoberts]

Hi everybody just checking in and though you'd all like my experience with Brazilian rosewood.
Let’s start here with a few known facts: Rosewood has about 600 different species. The botanical name for Brazilian rosewood is Dalbergianigra. This species of rosewood grows sporadically throughout Brazil. One could walk six miles in one direction and not see one of these trees at all and then walk a mile or two in another direction and see a few together. So it’s hit or miss and it adds to the scarcity of the species. Worth mentioning, there is a lot of Jacaranda rosewood growing in Brazil that some people mistake for Dalbergianegri.
Here’s a few tips to determine what old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood is. They are real obvious to me and I’m sure to other instrument builders and wood workers. Here goes:
Color- Old growth boards range from orange to burgundy to dark chocolate to almost black with no middle ground. Sometimes it will even have a hint of dark green.
Density- The old growth boards when tapped almost sound like you’re tapping on glass.
Smell (and this is the dead giveaway) -Old cut boards have a strong sweet, flowery, chocolate smell.
The stronger the smell the older the wood, no ifs ands or buts about it. The reasons for the strong smell are for one, a result of the trees decay process. Or in other words a mature tree that hit its peak. The other reason for the scent is that it’s the tree's natural defense against bugs. There is a chemical inside the tree that does this. The scent maybe pleasant to us but it’s not pleasing to insects.
Bottom line: Smell intensity, color and density are the real giveaways.
The old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood I have fits all these requirements. Only a few boards left by the way.

Here’s what I can say about the Brazilian rosewood you see available today.1st and for most it’s all new growth probably cut in the late 90's. Its grey brown color is the dead giveaway that the tree was young when it was cut. The majority of a tree that is cut today is used for perfume. The part that is left for instrument builders and cabinet makers is three feet from the buttress up to the first branch. Basically wet useless scraps.

I hope this helps describe the wood I have and clears any confusion as to what old growth old cut Brazilian rosewood is.
PS: Beware of auction sites when hunting this wood down.

Thanks very much! Do you notice any significant sonic differences between the old growth Brazilian rosewood versus some of your other options? i.e. Honduran, Madagascar, or even standard Indian Rosewood?

 

[PocketGroove82]

Nice info, Jimmy. Thanks for chiming in as I will now be on the look out for basses with the grey'ish Brazilian RW Boards.

Thanks very much! Do you notice any significant sonic differences between the old growth Brazilian rosewood versus some of your other options? i.e. Honduran, Madagascar, or even standard Indian Rosewood?

Roscoe, when I ordered my AC last year I asked him the same question. I don't presume to speak for Jimmy, but I can share with you what he said to me.

He likened the Brazilian to the mellow motown, Jamerson tone, and said something along the lines of it having more thump in the lows/low mids. He said the Indian and Honduran had more of the burp associated with more mids....if my memory serves me correctly.

Matt