Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 9)

[peterpalmieri]

Yes, but to Ken's point, if he IS already at (or "comfortably beyond") capacity, he doesn't need to get the name out more... word of mouth is good enough as it is.

So I think it comes down to whether or not my supposition is right that he's not currently at what he expects his capacity to be in the coming year.

Jimmy does distribute internationally through dealers doesn't he? He might also be looking to get the eye of big name players that float around the place. Remember he used to be smack in the middle of midtown Manhattan. Just throwing it out.

 

[jonno1707]

IMO The business is just starting to really take off...He can always expand and train more people to meet demands while expanding the profitability of the business...Never walk when you can run...

 

[Andrew Jones]

He uses dealers outside the US,,right? Many of those potential relationships a walking around the floors at namm.

You need exposure but you also need validation,word of mouth is great but pics of Marcus playing your bass is BP mag with a grin on his face is valuable.

I imagine there's the hang factor as well,,, He must have a blast sitting around a dinner table with a bunch of his piers talking shop.I mean we go out and work weekends after shedding. We still dig the GTG, A man can't exist on sawdust alone.



Aj

 

[biggreddbass]

NAMM is Jimmy's big "See & Be Seen" hang.
As much as we all love what he does, he's still making his name & building his reputation.
NAMM is a chance for him to meet international dealers as well as well as exposing his stuff to new artists who have heard of A/C, but have never played one. Also, there are many guys who get into NAMM who are regular customers and have never been able to play an A/C in person. Jimmy gets a whole lot of orders every year from folks who stop by the booth (randomly & intentionally) that keep him busy for the next year. NAMM is also the place where he reveals new additions to the line or new innovations to the basses. Last year, the EU-T (only available in Europe & Turkey) debuted @ NAMM as well as the NF No Frills). Jimmy has opened up dealers in Australia, Italy & England thanks to NAMM. It's also the only time of year when he gets to see his friends like Mike Tobias, who like him are super busy, live far apart & don't get to see each other as much as they'd like.
Hope this helps your curiosity.

 

[svtb15]

+1 My Black kbp5 is light.. 8 pounds on one scale. And its so loud acoustically its ridiculous.
When plugged in the notes pop out of it yet it also has great sustain,even with the vintage bridge on it now..
Lanice from Micheal Mcdonalds band has one almost like mine except he has the hipshot bridge on his black one. Not sure what on hi other.

No I wouldn't think generally that a P or J would have any difference in weight based on how the wood is cut. I do think Jimmy uses very light Alder on the KBPs, not sure if his selection process is any different from P to J though. The P body does sit differently on your body and I think the perceived weight can feel different. You also don't have that additional pickup or preamp weight and the vintage bridge which has less weight then the high mass.

In any case my particular KBP5 is super light and I have no reference point to his other Ps to know if it's in the norm or not. It's certainly significantly lighter then my LG5, which is lighter then my alder rosewood USA JO4. Hopefully the LM5 won't be a boat anchor...

 

[svtb15]

I always discuss the weight with him. Jimmy knows that i prefer real light alder.
Jimmy is one of the builders that will actually go through a pile of wood and find what you want the best he can.
The last two basses i got from him i went through the wood with him.. Alder can really vary alot too. I have seen pieces almost as heavy as some northern ash / boat anchors.. But some people like that.. and seems to get that 70s slap tone in a Jazz bass better than lighter ash.. IMO..
But my back and neck thanks him for taking the time to find the right piece of wood to be ergo correct for my needs..

Did you discuss weight with Jimmy when you ordered?

 

[Gilsonite]

Here's a quick question on somewhat of a side topic. NAMM is primarily a trade-show designed so that manufacturers can preview their new gear to their dealers, and nail down orders for the year. From what I understand, it is quite expensive to both belong to the organization and to rent space in the hall.

Since Jimmy has no distribution (i.e., no dealers), I wonder why he would go through all the trouble and cost. He is obviously selling everything he makes already (and strangely has built a bunch of 'spec' basses for NAMM while some of his customers are still waiting for orders).

Anyone have an idea why Jimmy would bother with this? Just curious from a business perspective. Seems like easier and less expensive ways to get your name out there (maybe not).

Just curious

Sadowsky is in the same category, with the exception of their Metro line, all NYC basses and guitars are direct, and he has a very well established name and reputation, but still makes it out to the NAMM show every year.

 

[Vic]

Jimmy does distribute internationally through dealers doesn't he? He might also be looking to get the eye of big name players that float around the place. Remember he used to be smack in the middle of midtown Manhattan. Just throwing it out.

Absolutely, but having more channels than you can effectively feed is actually a bad thing, so I still think it all boils down to projected capacity potential for 2010.

 

[sps500]

Jimmy going BIG TIME?

 

[KJung]

Sadowsky is in the same category, with the exception of their Metro line, all NYC basses and guitars are direct, and he has a very well established name and reputation, but still makes it out to the NAMM show every year.

I would think Roger's Metro sales are many, many times his NYC sales, and he has many, many dealers. And, from what I understand, he is now skipping NAMM (heard that second hand though... so that might be wrong). It made total sense to me that he would pay the big bucks to sell the Metro concept into dealers at NAMM.

Per the comments above, I guess it makes sense for Jimmy also, to 'lay some pipe' if he eventually expands production and possibly comes out with a somewhat widely distributed, lower cost line like Roger. Cool! He should fill his customer's orders before building NAMM spec basses though When you have a business that starts to grow, you have to be very careful that you don't 'run before walking'... i.e., make sure the current business remains totally solid prior to and during the expansion. Roger Sadowsky should write a book for these guys

Anyway, no big deal, just found it strange given the cost and time of doing a booth, and especially since he can't keep up with the orders he has currently. However, with that CNC coming on-line soon, things will probably change a bit. Cool.

I'm looking forward to seeing all the pictures of all his NAMM basses. I understand Nordstrand has some very cool new 'vintage' models they will be showing at NAMM also, so it should be fun to see all this stuff on the threads!

 

[vision]

And, from what I understand, he is now skipping NAMM (heard that second hand though... so that might be wrong).

Ken Smith stopped going to NAMM shows a couple years ago...he realized at some point that his name was already big enough, he already had plenty or orders, and the cost was too high to go out there just for the purpose of hanging with the other industry guys and artists.

But since Jimmy is relatively new, and since he made the big investment of getting that CNC machine, I understand why building up more buzz is important to him. At this point, his wait time is still under a year, so he isn't too backed up with his current orders. If he was to stay with the status quo, his profit margins probably wouldn't be as good as he wants with the cost of that CNC machine...so it may be a thing that he really HAS to get production ramped up to make everything worthwhile. So if he can go to NAMM (which at least for him isn't a cross country trip anymore, which I'm sure cuts the cost down) and build up more buzz, and also get a good number of orders/deposits, he may be able to hire another person or two to help him ramp up production to the level he wants all while keeping the wait time reasonable.

 

[Vic]

...from what I understand, (Roger) is now skipping NAMM (heard that second hand though... so that might be wrong).

This is correct, at least for this year, and I got this first hand. I don't know about futures.

 

[Joe Clark]

Does anyone know what specifically Jimmy plans on using the CNC machine for? I know there's an ongoing debate about Handmade vs. CNC, but you'd expect at those prices to get a handmade bass. I just got a price list from Jimmy (2009, but he assured me prices would stay the same for awhile) as I'm planning on selling some of my other gear and ordering a LG5. I don't know if I want to drop that dough if it's all CNC'd.

On the other hand he does have some of the best woods in the business, and his prices are still below Sadowsky, who's going up this year. I understand inflation, but it blows my mind to think the 60's Jazz and Precisions that he's inspired by sold for less than $500 back in the day.

 

[thndrstk6]

I think he uses the CNC machines to cut out the basic shape. The rest is done by hand. Not sure though.

 

[KJung]

Does anyone know what specifically Jimmy plans on using the CNC machine for? I know there's an ongoing debate about Handmade vs. CNC, but you'd expect at those prices to get a handmade bass. I just got a price list from Jimmy (2009, but he assured me prices would stay the same for awhile) as I'm planning on selling some of my other gear and ordering a LG5. I don't know if I want to drop that dough if it's all CNC'd.

On the other hand he does have some of the best woods in the business, and his prices are still below Sadowsky, who's going up this year. I understand inflation, but it blows my mind to think the 60's Jazz and Precisions that he's inspired by sold for less than $500 back in the day.

Nah... per the above.. the CNC will most likely just do the rough body and neck cutouts from raw wood (the s*** work) and then the luthier will finish the bass as always. I have zero issue with this.

 

[Joe Clark]

Nah... per the above.. the CNC will most likely just do the rough body and neck cutouts from raw wood (the s*** work) and then the luthier will finish the bass as always. I have zero issue with this.

I'm cool with that too. There seems to be an alarming amount of "boutique" luthiers who, with the exception of fretwork, use CNC to the max.

Now to finalize some specs.

 

[west*coast*bass]

I don't understand why people have issues with the CNC... The CNC has some benefits. A guy like Jimmy will be able to get more pieces roughed out in a shorter period of time which can reduce fatigue, and allow for greater consistency of his products.

The fact of life here is that as he gets more and more orders, it's a solid business decision to bring something in to help expedite orders. Now, the CNC won't move his build time from 8 months to 6 months, but it could shave a couple of weeks off of each build...which can equate to more orders being able to go out the door annually.

 

[Vic]

Does anyone know what specifically Jimmy plans on using the CNC machine for? I know there's an ongoing debate about Handmade vs. CNC, but you'd expect at those prices to get a handmade bass.

You are getting one. IMHO, the debate is ridiculous and not worth your attention.

Just like west*coast*bass says, the CNC machines will never ever replace what you actually pay for in a "hand made" bass. The critical stuff, like wood selection and matching, fret work, actual assembly and set up, building the neck, etc.

All a CNC machine is used for is initial cutting and shaping, with a higher level of assurance of consistency. This is a GOOD thing. A VERY good thing.

Bass design, wood selection, assembly, finish, setup, etc, are all still going to be done personally by the builder/luthier. That's what you actually are paying for... not the basic grunt work, which is all the CNC does.

 

[YCBass]

He should fill his customer's orders before building NAMM spec basses though When you have a business that starts to grow, you have to be very careful that you don't 'run before walking'... i.e., make sure the current business remains totally solid prior to and during the expansion. Roger Sadowsky should write a book for these guys

Anyway, no big deal, just found it strange given the cost and time of doing a booth, and especially since he can't keep up with the orders he has currently. However, with that CNC coming on-line soon, things will probably change a bit. Cool.

I think we have to keep in mind the difference in the number of staff in the Sadowsky shop and A-C. I don't have any figures but I will assume it's more than 2 or even more than when Jimmy has help for times like NAMM. Taking this into account, plus the fact that he's not doing his own paint jobs right now and has to rely on someone else, I don't think he is doing too bad with his wait time and keeping up with orders compared to say Sadowsky whose NYC line is at least the same wait - without doing their own cutting, etc.

As far as NAMM basses being built before customer orders... As far as I know some or a lot of the bodies were cut in NY and have been there since he moved, hence being able to build 24 basses in a span of 2 months and still running the front office and finishing some regular orders. From a business perspective I understand why any company would want to prioritize NAMM for the future investment. Also, a lot of these basses can be potential sales at NAMM since they're not spoken for yet which will give him more capital to get more materials. I think having basses in stock is also a worthwhile investment for him for those of us who want it NOW!

I know there are a lot of sides to this but I respect where Jimmy is now and don't want to see the day where things get parted out to keep up with demand like others... Which I know none of you have implied, just using as an example.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

[svtb15]

+1 Vic,
Also,The CNC is a whole lost safer, faster, and consistent than roughing out a body on a band saw following a pencil line all by eye....
And it sure beats whittling it down with a pocket knife. Im sure he could whittle it down with a pocket knife but it would cost you a weeks worth of his time... cha ching!

You are getting one. IMHO, the debate is ridiculous and not worth your attention.

Just like west*coast*bass says, the CNC machines will never ever replace what you actually pay for in a "hand made" bass. The critical stuff, like wood selection and matching, fret work, actual assembly and set up, building the neck, etc.

All a CNC machine is used for is initial cutting and shaping, with a higher level of assurance of consistency. This is a GOOD thing. A VERY good thing.

Bass design, wood selection, assembly, finish, setup, etc, are all still going to be done personally by the builder/luthier. That's what you actually are paying for... not the basic grunt work, which is all the CNC does.