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Club Alleva Coppolo (Part IV)

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#321
Regarding the bass control, I'm not sure I'm hearing it the same way Ken is unless we're talking semantics here. I'd describe the bass control on the AC as "more subtle" maybe "more controllable", but not "tighter". To me, tighter means narrower frequency range. At least to my ears, the AC seems bigger and wider down low, and the bass control seems to also go along those same lines. I don't have the detailed spex on each, but it'd be interesting to see the shelving specs on both to see if it's the preamp itself or just the way the total package works.

On the treble control, it probably depends a lot on cabs (remember, I'm playing through an uber bright Epi, and I generally don't attenuate the tweeter!), fingers, strings, etc, but I don't think I've ever boosted treble on any bass to slap, tho I will say with certain gear and circumstances I have slapped without cutting anything. Generally tho, I find a little roll back of the PTC/VTC smooths out the high end in a really sweet way for my personal tastes and (crappy) slap style (which may also be part of it).

Also, the Sadowsky treble is voiced at 4K and the AC is voiced at 6.5K, which also explains why the AC's treble control may seem sweeter or even more usable if you're just looking to add a little sizzle up top (which, IMHO, particularly compliments the native voicing of at least the LG... I'll find out about the LM tomorrow). On the other hand, the Sadowsky would probably add more "usable clarity" for fingerstyle... being down a bit closer to what I call the "roundwound ring".

IMHO/IME anyhoo...
 
#322
Vic said:
Regarding the bass control, I'm not sure I'm hearing it the same way Ken is unless we're talking semantics here
Click to expand...

We are definitely hearing that differently. It's almost to my ear like the Alleva boosts the upper bass and lower mids (like around 80 or 100 hz or so.. more like a non shelving tone control centered at 40.. more upper bass and less sub bass than a shelving control set at 40), while the Sadowsky just booms HUGE like a shelving control set at 40 (which is the spec) when you really boost it (which I never do for that reason).

You can even see it when you boost both and look at the 'speaker travel'.. the Sadowsky boost results in the speakers almost popping out of the front of the cab.. that deep, sub-bass sort of thing, whereas the Alleva just seems to subtly make the bass a little bigger and punchier, even at relatively extreme boosts... not as much 'cone excursion'.

That's part of the reason (I think) that quite a few describe the Alleva's as sounding relatively passive, even when the preamp is boosted a bit, whereas the Sadowsky quickly takes on a very active sort of aggressive vibe.

I again VERY much like both voicings!

Interesting.

Edit: Part of this could be the particular Alleva you are playing. The LG's are a touch fatter down low, and a few have described the impact of than DN board as 'darkening the tone' a bit. When you combine all that with 60's pickup position, and comparing it to an ash/maple Sadowsky, it might be a different vibe than my 70's position, lightweight ash/maple LM5.
 
#323
PocketGroove82 said:
Nice post, Vic!
Great Review Bud, my soundman would be impressed! :) I'm turning into a passive junkie as of late. I wonder when the "modern" phase will begin, all over again? ;)

Matt
Click to expand...

Ditto on the kudos. Like Matt, I've also been continuing to run my LG-5 passive (also like Matt, I always go active with the Sadowsky): just crank the amp to compensate for the gain difference, and there's all that A-C 60's-era Jazz juice...not so much thump, honk, clank, burp, or sizzle, but juice. I think there's some growl in there, as well, and maybe a little grind.

Can we assign frequency ranges to these various poetic bass tone descriptors?

-Steve
 
#324
KJung said:
We are definitely hearing that differently. It's almost to my ear like the Alleva boosts the upper bass and lower mids (like around 80 or 100 hz or so.. more like a non shelving tone control centered at 40.. more upper bass and less sub bass than a shelving control set at 40), while the Sadowsky just booms HUGE like a shelving control set at 40 (which is the spec) when you really boost it (which I never do for that reason).

You can even see it when you boost both and look at the 'speaker travel'.. the Sadowsky boost results in the speakers almost popping out of the front of the cab.. that deep, sub-bass sort of thing, whereas the Alleva just seems to subtly make the bass a little bigger and punchier, even at relatively extreme boosts... not as much 'cone excursion'.

That's part of the reason (I think) that quite a few describe the Alleva's as sounding relatively passive, even when the preamp is boosted a bit, whereas the Sadowsky quickly takes on a very active sort of aggressive vibe.

I again VERY much like both voicings!

Interesting.

Edit: Part of this could be the particular Alleva you are playing. The LG's are a touch fatter down low, and a few have described the impact of than DN board as 'darkening the tone' a bit. When you combine all that with 60's pickup position, and comparing it to an ash/maple Sadowsky, it might be a different vibe than my 70's position, lightweight ash/maple LM5.
Click to expand...
Very good points, and I'll run a quick test tonight to see if I can observe the same thing. I was just listening to the sounds, and lot of that really really low stuff is hard to tell in a basement whether it's room boom or cab flab. :D
 
#325
Vic said:
Very good points, and I'll run a quick test tonight to see if I can observe the same thing. I was just listening to the sounds, and lot of that really really low stuff is hard to tell in a basement whether it's room boom or cab flab. :D
Click to expand...

+1 You are also much better at identifying actually frequencies. I'm just guessing with all the 100hz stuff... just using that more as a proxy to describe 'upper bass' versus 'deep bass extension', etc.

K
 
#326
KJung said:
Part of this could be the particular Alleva you are playing. The LG's are a touch fatter down low, and a few have described the impact of than DN board as 'darkening the tone' a bit. When you combine all that with 60's pickup position, and comparing it to an ash/maple Sadowsky, it might be a different vibe than my 70's position, lightweight ash/maple LM5.
Click to expand...

Yes, interesting. The only 5-string I have for comparison is a Sadowsky Modern -- admittedly not a J-family sound at all -- but I'd characterize the low strings on the LG-5 as being significantly brighter and less bottomy than on the Sadowsky, so much so that if I do use the LG-5's pre-amp at all, it's to boost the bass a touch. I don't think I've ever felt the need to boost the A-C's top end (in my exactly four weeks as an Alleva-Copplo-ista :)). I wonder how much of this relative low-string brightness is LG-5, and how much is *this* LG-5? What say ye, LG-5 familiars?

On the other hand, I tended to push the top a lot on the Sadowsky in order to try to get a usable popping/slapping sound...like Ken, I'm not enamored of the Modern's slap tone. The A-C, however, at any tone setting, is slap heaven. That's the juice.

-Steve
 
#327
Big String said:
Hey Vic!!!
nope... that rotten Bernie has his new AC hiddien away...:)

Hey Bernie
Scott said you brought it with recently.. loved it.
Click to expand...

My mistake, Dean! Sorry about that. PM when you have a gig in our neck of the woods and I'll bring it to the gig. Feel free to play it during the show! I'd be happy to catch another show so that would work.

It was funny when Scott finished the first song with the LG5. He looked at me and said, "It's very vintage." and smiled. Made me feel good because that's exactly what Jimmy wants and he does it incredibly! They really are great basses.
 
#328
KJung said:
+1 You are also much better at identifying actually frequencies. I'm just guessing with all the 100hz stuff... just using that more as a proxy to describe 'upper bass' versus 'deep bass extension', etc.

K
Click to expand...
Thanks, and yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

The other thing is, I wanna' make sure folks don't misunderstand me too... even though I do think the AC sounds a bit bigger and wider down low, that's just frequencies, not volume. In other words, if a bass is very "even" from low to high, which I think describes the AC, then you can have a bigger low end without necessarily having a boom/mud problem. IMHO, that applies to the AC.

The other thing that's cool is that bass control really seems to be carefully architected such that you can use it easily without creating that problem either.

Also, I still need to spend more time with these guys... I'm just trying hard to keep the strings as fresh as possible for now.

BTW, if all goes as well as I hope, this LG may be "destined for greatness" in the future. Tony, I'll PM you with deets. :)
 
#331
Vic said:
Regarding the bass control, I'm not sure I'm hearing it the same way Ken is unless we're talking semantics here. I'd describe the bass control on the AC as "more subtle" maybe "more controllable", but not "tighter". To me, tighter means narrower frequency range. At least to my ears, the AC seems bigger and wider down low, and the bass control seems to also go along those same lines. I don't have the detailed spex on each, but it'd be interesting to see the shelving specs on both to see if it's the preamp itself or just the way the total package works.
Click to expand...

+1, I think Vic and I experience the same thing.
 
#333
Ace Of Bass said:
+1.......I just know mine sound great and use my ears to judge to the best of my ability...............
Click to expand...

+1 and to Bernie also. It's actually amazing now consistently most of us describe these things. The key is, we all dig the heck out of them.

And, they are probably the easiest bass to describe in non-technical terms to those who haven't played them... play an older Fender J or P that your Fender buddies describe as 'killer'.... that's what the A-C's sound like, except with the advantage of perfect fit and finish, subtle active electronics, and 5 strings if you want it:D
 
#334
Ace Of Bass said:
+1.......I just know mine sound great and use my ears to judge to the best of my ability...............
Click to expand...

Can't go wrong with that formula!

KJung said:
+1 and to Bernie also. It's actually amazing now consistently most of us describe these things. The key is, we all dig the heck out of them.

And, they are probably the easiest bass to describe in non-technical terms to those who haven't played them... play an older Fender J or P that your Fender buddies describe as 'killer'.... that's what the A-C's sound like, except with the advantage of perfect fit and finish, subtle active electronics, and 5 strings if you want it:D
Click to expand...

I agree, Ken. I try to tell people it's vintage just better. Most people can relate to that. :)
 
#337
Big String said:
I can .. I'm vintage... :hmm:

Hey Bernie glad you're enjoying the new AE!
Yeah definately bring it out sometime or stop over at the house. Come up and play so I can hear my rig too...

Yes, I recall Scott saying very vintage in a very good way.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, Dean! I'll have to check out your gig calendar.

Glad Scott was digging it too. If you dig a good jazz tone, I don't know how you couldn't like it! :D
 
#339
IMG_0871.jpg



Aj
 
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