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Club Fbass (Part 10!)

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George Furlanet said:
I will test many strings and find those which seem to bring out the best in an instrument and then make that recommendation.

I thought you already did that when you developed Fbass strings? You should offer Fbass strings in different varieties, gauges, non-exposed cores, nickels, flats, etc.
Other companies do it, think of the sells that you are missing out on.
 
I thought you already did that when you developed Fbass strings? You should offer Fbass strings in different varieties, gauges, non-exposed cores, nickels, flats, etc.
Other companies do it, think of the sells that you are missing out on.
I'm going to take two guesses on his response to this...

1.) Yes, but that's still George's prefs... I'm thinking he understands as great as he feels those strings are, it's still a subjective enough topic others will make other choices. Such is the case with me. :)

2.) I'm guessing having tons of string offerings is not high on his priority list because his time is consumed building basses, he wants to remain focused on that, and doing that much with strings could be taxing enough to be an entirely separate business... case in point, DR, Rotosound, etc... :)
 
Vic said:
I'm going to take two guesses on his response to this...

1.) Yes, but that's still George's prefs... I'm thinking he understands as great as he feels those strings are, it's still a subjective enough topic others will make other choices. Such is the case with me. :)

2.) I'm guessing having tons of string offerings is not high on his priority list because his time is consumed building basses, he wants to remain focused on that, and doing that much with strings could be taxing enough to be an entirely separate business... case in point, DR, Rotosound, etc... :)

1) have you seen the Fbass cab teasers? Does that not take away from making instruments?
2) Fodera seems to do it just fine, and sucessfully, without loosing their focus on building their instruments. I would think George would want to get a hand in that side of business, think of ask of the threads that you've read where people have tried Fbass strings but didn't like the exposed core do now the use brand x.
That's like going to a concert and the band not having merch to sale because they don't want to distract from the music.
George, your thoughts?
 
Unfortunately strings choice is a very subjective and personal thing; you've got to like them too, and take into consideration: expense, longevity, tone, feel and what works best for that instrument.
I will test many strings and find those which seem to bring out the best in an instrument and then make that recommendation. The rest is up to the individual.
George, I'm sorry, but I meant for that to be directed at firebass, not you. I was inviting him to share his string odyssey with the group so we can learn from it.

But if you have research to share too, all the better!
 
1) have you seen the Fbass cab teasers? Does that not take away from making instruments?
2) Fodera seems to do it just fine, and sucessfully, without loosing their focus on building their instruments. I would think George would want to get a hand in that side of business, think of ask of the threads that you've read where people have tried Fbass strings but didn't like the exposed core do now the use brand x.
That's like going to a concert and the band not having merch to sale because they don't want to distract from the music.
George, your thoughts?

Agreed.

Those exposed core strings simply don't work with metal top load bridges, that's my experience and the experience of many others who switched to another brand. If you have ears and you care about the sound coming from your bass, I don't know how you can miss it.
 
I'm going to take two guesses on his response to this...

1.) Yes, but that's still George's prefs... I'm thinking he understands as great as he feels those strings are, it's still a subjective enough topic others will make other choices. Such is the case with me. :)

2.) I'm guessing having tons of string offerings is not high on his priority list because his time is consumed building basses, he wants to remain focused on that, and doing that much with strings could be taxing enough to be an entirely separate business... case in point, DR, Rotosound, etc... :)
Good answer, Vic.

There are all KINDS of reasons to try different strings, tone being just one of them.

I've used different kinds of strings on basses for the following reasons:

o I got several packs free from someone who wanted me to try a specific brand.

o The coating was a color I thought would look cool with a particular bass.

o I could get them in volume for a sweet price.

o I wondered what nickle would sound like on a particular bass.

o It was one of the few EADGC packs I could fine to try.

o I wondered if this brand / type would go dead as quickly.

o I liked the artist / endorser's tone and wondered how much their strings would affect mine.

o It was what I had in the house and didn't want to wait for an order to arrive to refresh my strings.

o So and so said to try them.

o I was just bored / curious and decided to try a random pack of strings.

If George were in the string business only and not building basses, I don't know how he could possibly anticipate such a range of reasons for string changes.

Just because my car came with Goodyear tires, that doesn't mean I'm locked into them for the life of the car.
 
Well George has really started my build and provided me a few pictures that I thought I would share.
 

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1) have you seen the Fbass cab teasers? Does that not take away from making instruments?
2) Fodera seems to do it just fine, and sucessfully, without loosing their focus on building their instruments. I would think George would want to get a hand in that side of business, think of ask of the threads that you've read where people have tried Fbass strings but didn't like the exposed core do now the use brand x.
That's like going to a concert and the band not having merch to sale because they don't want to distract from the music.
George, your thoughts?
I'm not George, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. And I went to a pretty good business school. And for fun and leisure I constantly read nerdy, technical books on topics such as business strategy from gurus like Michael Porter, so I'll take a stab at answering this.

We all know that there is a difference between branding and manufacturing.

I seriously doubt the Fecktones had much direct involvement in making the t-shirts merchandised under their brand at their concerts. Victor Wooten is one gifted man, but I just don't know how good he is with a needle and thread, you know?

When it comes to their merchandise, the Flecktones brand, they don't manufacturer. This arrangement is a proverbial win / win. The Flecktones get money they otherwise wouldn't by loaning their brand, and the clothing wholesaler gets money it otherwise wouldn't if it tried selling generic t-shirts at Flecktones concerts.

And it is interesting that you mentioned Fodera. Fodera strings are actually built by small, "no-name" US companies and sold to Fodera so they can be resold under the Fodera brand. It is the same win / win there too. Fodera gets money they otherwise wouldn't by reselling strings, and their manufacturers get money they probably would not be getting if they tried to sell those same strings as their own brand.

Like Fodera, George's Fbass strings are manufactured by someone else and are sold under the Fbass brand. George's special sauce in this instance is in the specific gauges of the strings he has made for his instruments.

However, unlike Fodera, Fbass's string manufacturer has a very strong brand: La Bella. And unlike Fodera's string manufacturers, La Bella doesn't need Fbass to stay in business. It's not the same win / win arrangement as Fodera's.

Because La Bella sells everything from nylon coated flats to double bass strings, I'm sure that if George wanted, he could brand other La Bella offerings and really "get a hand in that business" as you say, and not lose too much focus doing it.

But loss of focus isn't the problem, this is a matter of what George wants his brand to mean to people out in the marketplace.

"Competitive convergence" is what happens when companies imitate and match each other's moves as they compete to be the best. Over time companies engaged in competitive convergence begin to look alike, thus commoditizing their industry.

When competing products become commodities, they have very small margins. Companies with a highly efficient, high volume manufacturing operation thrive quite nicely in a commoditized marketplace. But to a specialized, handcrafted, boutique builder, commoditization is death.

In other words, for George to compete in the string business, he would either have to become a high volume, highly efficient manufacturer, or brand the offerings of one.

Hopefully we all agree that Fbass should not become a high volume, highly efficient manufacturer. That would destroy their brand. We buy Fbass in large part precisely because they are not Fender or Ibanez with their mass-produced, McDonald's-like quality standards.

[EDIT: That was not meant to be a put down to Fender, Ibanez or McDonalds. I love Macs and my 1976 Fender Jazz bass. But usually I'm more in the mood for salmon and my AC6, you know?]

That means Fbass's only viable option for getting into the string business in a serious way is branding.

Let's assume for a minute that La Bella is okay with allowing the Fbass to become a competitor and they agree to provide Fbass with a broader product line of strings.

Is that what George wants for the Fbass brand? If he does, I see nothing wrong with it. If he doesn't, I understand that too.

IBM (one of my former employers) invented the PC, yet they got out of the PC business precisely because PCs became a commodity, and IBM flat does not want their brand competing in commoditized markets. They want their brand to be considered the very top tier by the marketplace, and would have been MORTIFIED to have their products sold in Walmart and K-mart the way Acers, HPs and Dells are today.

In short, IBM doesn't want a "hand in that business" because of brand positioning. They are just fine missing out on PC sales, because the credibility of their brand makes them money in other ways.

I'm guessing that's why Fbass is fine with us either getting Fbass strings if they work for us, or if they don't going to another string.

Too much there; sorry.
 
Its great to hear all of the speculations as to why Fbass only has 3 selections for strings 4, 5 or 6, but the question was for George and I honestly would like to hear from him.
BTW, I certainly don't intend for this to turn into a Fodera vs Fbass debate, or a let's dog Fodera thread, there's enough of those already.
 
Its great to hear all of the speculations as to why Fbass only has 3 selections for strings 4, 5 or 6, but the question was for George and I honestly would like to hear from him.
BTW, I certainly don't intend for this to turn into a Fodera vs Fbass debate, or a let's dog Fodera thread, there's enough of those already.

Tom7 has many valid points and I'd like to add..

Our strings and basses were developed at the same time to achieve maximum output & clarity and simply put...to sound the best to our ears.

The exposed core produces a clear fundamental and the lower tension produces a bigger tone. This is the formula we stuck to (with the exception of the VF models).
 
Tom7 has many valid points and I'd like to add..

Our strings and basses were developed at the same time to achieve maximum output & clarity and simply put...to sound the best to our ears.

The exposed core produces a clear fundamental and the lower tension produces a bigger tone. This is the formula we stuck to (with the exception of the VF models).

I understand why you developed your strings for your basses but you've made exceptions, i.e. the VF line, which is more vintage. I was just courious why you didn't expand your string line to match?
I have seen alot of "what strings do you use on your Fbass" conversations here on Talkbass. Like myself, a lot of people use DR Hi Beams, why not come out with an Fbass version? Just curious.
 
Hey F Bass club members, I'm looking to add a BN6 in the very near future. Sorry if this topic has already been beat to death but i'd like to ask what amp and cab combo's you are using with your F Bass's. I currently have SWR Cabs and heads (Goliath II and Goliath III's) SWR Bass 350 and SM-900..all pre fender except the Goliath III. These work really well with my Tobias and Smith basses but I'm affraid they might color the sound of the F pre too much..thoughts?
 
I thought that Fodera actually made their own strings and this page of their website would suggest that to be true. I converted to Fodera strings a little while back and I think they are the best I have ever had on my F-Bass.

http://www.fodera.com/PublicPages/BassStrings.aspx
I've used Fodera strings too, on my Yin Yang Deluxe and my Monarch 5 and I like them. Maybe I should give them a whirl on one of my Fbasses as well.

A few months ago, Invalid Link Removed, Jason DeSalvo, the managing partner for Fodera sent out an email to Fodera owners informing us that all the artist string sets (named for Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison and Anthony Jackson) would be discontinued. They'd still be available, but not under artists' names.

In that email Jason made clear that "Tom, MaryAlice and Rick will continue making exactly the same handmade sets...." This is Fodera's manufacturer; these three people. I'm trying to remember where they are located, but as you can see by their photo titled "Our string 'factory'," they clearly are NOT in Brooklyn, much less at Fodera's shop.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

To be clear, I see nothing wrong with branding. In fact I think it is great; it lets everyone focus on what they are best at.

But whereas every Fodera bass (except the now discontinued NYCs which were made in Japan) is hand made by Vinnie Fodera and Joey Lauricella, the Fodera brand strings are not. In fact, probably the only time Fodera strings are even touched by Vinnie Fodera is when they are taken out of the package and put on the bass.

Again, as I wrote in my original post, whereas Fbass strings are made by La Bella, and La Bella sells strings under their own brand, Fodera's string maker is exclusive to Fodera, In that sense, they "make their own strings," but just as it is true for a building contractor to say he built a building, it is also true he did it with subcontractors doing things like the plumbing and electricity.


My original point though wasn't who made Fodera strings. It was that like Fodera, Fbass strings are not made by George and the luthier crew.
 
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