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Club Sadowsky!!!

Given the choice I would always select invisible frets. To those critical of it, I’m curious if you’ve ever tried a German Sadowsky with invisible frets. No more sharp ends ever. Having had many Sadowsky basses from NYC’s to Japanese to German Metros and German Masterbuilt basses I prefer the German made Sadowsky’s.
I own a Warwowsky and two NYC’s and, to be completely honest, I feel the frets on the German-made bass. Sounds weird but the fret ends don’t seem to be rounded over as much as my NYC basses. There was another person in this thread who mentioned the same thing. The two NYC’s have the most amazing necks, neither of which has ever had fret sprout.

With that said, however, I do keep all of my basses stored in a humidity controlled room out of necessity. I live in an incredibly dry area that has really long and harsh winters.

The couple times I have had fret sprout in my life, I fixed it in 5 minutes with a flat honing/sharpening stone and it didn’t harm the neck finish at all.
 
I own a Warwowsky and two NYC’s and, to be completely honest, I feel the frets on the German-made bass. Sounds weird but the fret ends don’t seem to be rounded over as much as my NYC basses. There was another person in this thread who mentioned the same thing. The two NYC’s have the most amazing necks, neither of which has ever had fret sprout.

With that said, however, I do keep all of my basses stored in a humidity controlled room out of necessity. I live in an incredibly dry area that has really long and harsh winters.

The couple times I have had fret sprout in my life, I fixed it in 5 minutes with a flat honing/sharpening stone and it didn’t harm the neck finish at all.

Cool.
 
I don't think the invisible fret ends is a big deal. I also don't care for the Adjust-A-Nut. I'll take a properly cut regular nut every time. The Adjust-A-Nut's I've had on the German models I've owned were not cut properly. With only two points of adjustment there was no way to really get ideal string height at the nut for all 5 strings. It also seemed that the A string had a bit of flex but I didn't measure it to see if that was the case. My experience with a few different German Metros has not been entirely positive for multiple reasons and I no longer own any. I think the neck profile on the German made is better than the MIJ's but that is probably the only thing I found better. The hardware, electronics, and pickups were better on the MIJ's in my opinion. The German made basses are good but fall shy of being great.
 
Just caught up with several pages of discussion. Hi friends!

@Pet Sounds , I retired my favorite MIJ E series Fender P from church duty and now play one of two MIJ Sadowsky Metroline HPJ 4-strings. Sadowsky Blue Label flats. The only “pedalboard” items are a Keeley Bassist with all 3 knobs set to noon, and a Khan VTDI. Boom. The only complaint I ever hear is that the bass is too present! And rarely that. :) BTW I run the blend at midpoint, bass boost 10%, no treble boost, and about 20% VTC cut. Sounds like a P bass that took growth hormone. :smug:

After reading more about the W series, I’m sticking with my TYOs and Japan Metrolines. And one lovely NYC.

I really need to get busy selling some passive basses. One of these days. ;)
 
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This isn’t group hypnosis. It depends greatly on the climate you live in. Speaking of the USA, I lived on the East Coast in and around NYC, the cold dry winters made fret sprout a real concern. Same with the upper Midwest. Luthiers in those locales mention fret sprout work as very common in the winter months.

Trust and believe that fret sprout could be a real issue, unless you enjoy cutting your hands on fret ends. Some basses exhibit this worse than others, but $20k Foderas and a $200 student model are equally susceptible. Most of my Sadowskys have had a bit of fret sprout. I have a maple neck/maple fingerboard model that is nearly 30 years old that never got fret sprout.

When I lived in Florida, I had no fret sprout concerns at all, even with basses that had it in other climates.
Well we have just gone through a devastating cyclone towards the end of summer so I guess I am qualified to comment. None of my basses suffered and I do live in an area where conditions vary significantly in winter. I think that fixing fret sprout is simple and easy if you buy the right file from Stewmac . You don't have to be a qualified luthier to do it and is a basic skill which I have passed on to many students. As basic and essential a skill as truss rod adjustments imo.
 
Does anyone know the difference between the bridge of an metroline and metroexpress? They have different part numbers and different prices.
And is the pickguard of an pj line the same as on a express?
I wanne change my express to black hardware.
 
I might be in the minority, but I think some of the magic in a PJ is how the P is the boss, leaving the J to just tighten things up a bit.

I don't think you're the minority. The P pickup is the star of the show on a PJ. The bridge brings the midrange definition when you need it. IMO no need for more than 50/50 towards the bridge or may as well pick up the JB.
 
Hi evone, here's a much anticipated video of our 30th Anniversary concert of Fusio Group from last year, with TWO basses duel... :D Featuring special guests, some former members of the band.
Mr. Studniczky (with the vintage JB) was the first bassist in the '90ies, and he was one of my biggest influence and hero at that time - so this was a big honor for me to play with him, never thought that ever I could... 2 basses in one band quite rare lineup.. :D

So I was very excited about this Modern Sadowsky and a classic Fender duel... :D



(Bigband album update: Peter Szendofi confirmed to me that album will be out soon, finished the mixing, he's seeking for label, publisher.)
 
Hi evone, here's a much anticipated video of our 30th Anniversary concert of Fusio Group from last year, with TWO basses duel... :D Featuring special guests, some former members of the band.
Mr. Studniczky (with the vintage JB) was the first bassist in the '90ies, and he was one of my biggest influence and hero at that time - so this was a big honor for me to play with him, never thought that ever I could... 2 basses in one band quite rare lineup.. :D

So I was very excited about this Modern Sadowsky and a classic Fender duel... :D



(Bigband album update: Peter Szendofi confirmed to me that album will be out soon, finished the mixing, he's seeking for label, publisher.)

OK ... that was SICK and your tone is exactly what I'm looking for from my M5-24. Especially the way you're able to get the break-up and grit.

My M5-24 is so buttery smooth and I'm wondering if I'm just not digging in hard enough or if I don't have my action low enough or what it is - can you tell me what kind of strings you use, what gauge they are and if you're using any in-line compression?

How do you like bass to be set up - how do you have your on-board EQ set - and how hard do you tend to dig in when you play?

KILLER tone and playing man ... loved it.
 
Hi evone, here's a much anticipated video of our 30th Anniversary concert of Fusio Group from last year, with TWO basses duel... :D Featuring special guests, some former members of the band.
Mr. Studniczky (with the vintage JB) was the first bassist in the '90ies, and he was one of my biggest influence and hero at that time - so this was a big honor for me to play with him, never thought that ever I could... 2 basses in one band quite rare lineup.. :D

So I was very excited about this Modern Sadowsky and a classic Fender duel... :D



(Bigband album update: Peter Szendofi confirmed to me that album will be out soon, finished the mixing, he's seeking for label, publisher.)


This is so great! Thank you for sharing!!
 
OK ... that was SICK and your tone is exactly what I'm looking for from my M5-24. Especially the way you're able to get the break-up and grit.

My M5-24 is so buttery smooth and I'm wondering if I'm just not digging in hard enough or if I don't have my action low enough or what it is - can you tell me what kind of strings you use, what gauge they are and if you're using any in-line compression?

How do you like bass to be set up - how do you have your on-board EQ set - and how hard do you tend to dig in when you play?

KILLER tone and playing man ... loved it.

Thanks, well I don't know how do you play, what kind of Modern do you have - The sound is mainly depends on wood and PUs (and fingers of course) I think. Somehow the newer series have different tone (not worse!), and often pricier, I wanted to find a used but well useful item...
My one is a 2009 MIJ Metro, I 've investigated tons of YT videos about different kinda Moderns before I ordered it from bassdirect.co.uk used section - I couldn't try it in real. You know it's quite hard to make general conclusions by videos even about one specific modell played by such a different environment/players etc. I found some very convincing uploaded vids around this era Moderns, so I've started seeking for these items. And I was lucky to catch an advert, and immediately grabbed it... :) I was very afraid of the shipment, insurance etc, but fortunately she'd arrived unharmed, carefully wrapped in huge bubble wraps, what surprised me a litl bit... :D

The questions: I use Ernie Ball Slinky (nickel) roundwound strings 45-130, sometimes 50-135. I liked medium gauge for decades until I had a power/thrash metal session requiring drop tunings so I tried a thicker 0.50 gauge set both of my basses (the other one is a Blade Penta JB), and even though it got a little more uncomfortable the sound became more thicker and stable - like it so I kept the sets on. I think using 50 gauge set at this birthday concert last year.
Few months ago I switched back to the 45 gauge for more comfort, because some finger/skin problems occuring. My fingers used to be crackin especially in winter, cold weather, dry humidity, and on the long company parties...
Second thing I used to play hard, sometimes too hard, but I like the plus 'attack' sound of the notes (I began to learn bass on classic rock/metal bass legends), but I know many players don't recommend it, this way of playing makes it 'unnecessarily' difficult, I accept that point. And furthermore not healthy ... :D

The setup: I don't like low or ultra low action even in the fusion/jazz genre, I found it's not beneficial for my playing style - but I admires many brilliant players on YT who has low action (I guess) helping much more fast , and accurate playing. This bass arrived with low action also, I started to setup a litl bit higher action, linked in pics. The pickups height I lowered for the same reason, some of my PUson former basses was scratched by the strings. And the sound is also effected.

On-board EQ: it's a very simple setup, I prefer active mode without gaining bass and treble, keeping that nice midrange - except if I have to play on some crap amp, or cab, the preamp EQ would be 'blessing' or jackpot in that case to gain preferred sound. VTC: I used on full, sometimes 50% when lighter, smoother tone needed, rarely 10-15%, f.e. walkin bass. I don't like to tweak down full to 0% , it's too hard cutting for me, killing the attack of the sound I think.

Compressor: Don't use any effect live, bass-cable-head (Magellan 800), when you switch to active mode, the signal will be compressed slightly I think, and that's enough for me. At home I use it in passive when practising by in-ear/headphones.
When mixing recorded tracks, bass track, I use some effects, comps sometimes, but if you have an excellent bass or any instrument it's very easy to misfit/mess up(?) its sound by bad setups... I'm learning and try to fix it sometimes you know... :D

So that's all, I hope it can helps you.


P_20230508_165549.jpg
P_20230508_165736.jpg
 
OK ... that was SICK and your tone is exactly what I'm looking for from my M5-24. Especially the way you're able to get the break-up and grit.

My M5-24 is so buttery smooth and I'm wondering if I'm just not digging in hard enough or if I don't have my action low enough or what it is - can you tell me what kind of strings you use, what gauge they are and if you're using any in-line compression?

How do you like bass to be set up - how do you have your on-board EQ set - and how hard do you tend to dig in when you play?

KILLER tone and playing man ... loved it.

Sorry, one more video, this is a Lukather cover track remixed some days ago, to demonstrate my 'digging' :D

 
Thanks, well I don't know how do you play, what kind of Modern do you have - The sound is mainly depends on wood and PUs (and fingers of course) I think. Somehow the newer series have different tone (not worse!), and often pricier, I wanted to find a used but well useful item...
My one is a 2009 MIJ Metro, I 've investigated tons of YT videos about different kinda Moderns before I ordered it from bassdirect.co.uk used section - I couldn't try it in real. You know it's quite hard to make general conclusions by videos even about one specific modell played by such a different environment/players etc. I found some very convincing uploaded vids around this era Moderns, so I've started seeking for these items. And I was lucky to catch an advert, and immediately grabbed it... :) I was very afraid of the shipment, insurance etc, but fortunately she'd arrived unharmed, carefully wrapped in huge bubble wraps, what surprised me a litl bit... :D

The questions: I use Ernie Ball Slinky (nickel) roundwound strings 45-130, sometimes 50-135. I liked medium gauge for decades until I had a power/thrash metal session requiring drop tunings so I tried a thicker 0.50 gauge set both of my basses (the other one is a Blade Penta JB), and even though it got a little more uncomfortable the sound became more thicker and stable - like it so I kept the sets on. I think using 50 gauge set at this birthday concert last year.
Few months ago I switched back to the 45 gauge for more comfort, because some finger/skin problems occuring. My fingers used to be crackin especially in winter, cold weather, dry humidity, and on the long company parties...
Second thing I used to play hard, sometimes too hard, but I like the plus 'attack' sound of the notes (I began to learn bass on classic rock/metal bass legends), but I know many players don't recommend it, this way of playing makes it 'unnecessarily' difficult, I accept that point. And furthermore not healthy ... :D

The setup: I don't like low or ultra low action even in the fusion/jazz genre, I found it's not beneficial for my playing style - but I admires many brilliant players on YT who has low action (I guess) helping much more fast , and accurate playing. This bass arrived with low action also, I started to setup a litl bit higher action, linked in pics. The pickups height I lowered for the same reason, some of my PUson former basses was scratched by the strings. And the sound is also effected.

On-board EQ: it's a very simple setup, I prefer active mode without gaining bass and treble, keeping that nice midrange - except if I have to play on some crap amp, or cab, the preamp EQ would be 'blessing' or jackpot in that case to gain preferred sound. VTC: I used on full, sometimes 50% when lighter, smoother tone needed, rarely 10-15%, f.e. walkin bass. I don't like to tweak down full to 0% , it's too hard cutting for me, killing the attack of the sound I think.

Compressor: Don't use any effect live, bass-cable-head (Magellan 800), when you switch to active mode, the signal will be compressed slightly I think, and that's enough for me. At home I use it in passive when practising by in-ear/headphones.
When mixing recorded tracks, bass track, I use some effects, comps sometimes, but if you have an excellent bass or any instrument it's very easy to misfit/mess up(?) its sound by bad setups... I'm learning and try to fix it sometimes you know... :D

So that's all, I hope it can helps you.


View attachment 5055956 View attachment 5055957

I Agree 10000%, my 2007 japanese M5 sounds better than any other sadowsky metro I have owned and played, including later japanese models (new pickups size) and def. any German metrolines
 
Thanks, well I don't know how do you play, what kind of Modern do you have - The sound is mainly depends on wood and PUs (and fingers of course) I think. Somehow the newer series have different tone (not worse!), and often pricier, I wanted to find a used but well useful item...
My one is a 2009 MIJ Metro, I 've investigated tons of YT videos about different kinda Moderns before I ordered it from bassdirect.co.uk used section - I couldn't try it in real. You know it's quite hard to make general conclusions by videos even about one specific modell played by such a different environment/players etc. I found some very convincing uploaded vids around this era Moderns, so I've started seeking for these items. And I was lucky to catch an advert, and immediately grabbed it... :) I was very afraid of the shipment, insurance etc, but fortunately she'd arrived unharmed, carefully wrapped in huge bubble wraps, what surprised me a litl bit... :D

The questions: I use Ernie Ball Slinky (nickel) roundwound strings 45-130, sometimes 50-135. I liked medium gauge for decades until I had a power/thrash metal session requiring drop tunings so I tried a thicker 0.50 gauge set both of my basses (the other one is a Blade Penta JB), and even though it got a little more uncomfortable the sound became more thicker and stable - like it so I kept the sets on. I think using 50 gauge set at this birthday concert last year.
Few months ago I switched back to the 45 gauge for more comfort, because some finger/skin problems occuring. My fingers used to be crackin especially in winter, cold weather, dry humidity, and on the long company parties...
Second thing I used to play hard, sometimes too hard, but I like the plus 'attack' sound of the notes (I began to learn bass on classic rock/metal bass legends), but I know many players don't recommend it, this way of playing makes it 'unnecessarily' difficult, I accept that point. And furthermore not healthy ... :D

The setup: I don't like low or ultra low action even in the fusion/jazz genre, I found it's not beneficial for my playing style - but I admires many brilliant players on YT who has low action (I guess) helping much more fast , and accurate playing. This bass arrived with low action also, I started to setup a litl bit higher action, linked in pics. The pickups height I lowered for the same reason, some of my PUson former basses was scratched by the strings. And the sound is also effected.

On-board EQ: it's a very simple setup, I prefer active mode without gaining bass and treble, keeping that nice midrange - except if I have to play on some crap amp, or cab, the preamp EQ would be 'blessing' or jackpot in that case to gain preferred sound. VTC: I used on full, sometimes 50% when lighter, smoother tone needed, rarely 10-15%, f.e. walkin bass. I don't like to tweak down full to 0% , it's too hard cutting for me, killing the attack of the sound I think.

Compressor: Don't use any effect live, bass-cable-head (Magellan 800), when you switch to active mode, the signal will be compressed slightly I think, and that's enough for me. At home I use it in passive when practising by in-ear/headphones.
When mixing recorded tracks, bass track, I use some effects, comps sometimes, but if you have an excellent bass or any instrument it's very easy to misfit/mess up(?) its sound by bad setups... I'm learning and try to fix it sometimes you know... :D

So that's all, I hope it can helps you.


View attachment 5055956 View attachment 5055957

Thank you for the nice write up!

Wow - you and I have a lot more in common than I might’ve thought. Same string gauges (45-130), more aggressive style and touch, I come from a more aggressive school of metal and rock and got into other styles later, slightly higher than lowest possible action and I mostly keep passive tone (VTC) maxed out and hardly ever use the onboard EQ.

In fact, I was convinced you were using lighter strings with a softer touch and had a perfectly dialed in EQ on deck with maybe a compressor of some kind.

Just killer, killer tone.

Where we definitely differ is that im using a newer, chambered NYC satin with the newer pickups as well. And I’m thinking that this is probably where the biggest differences are.

I was just playing around a bit and I can get close to your tone with the VTC backed off about 30%, bass up 20% and treble up about 50% … I also run my “always on” Cali77-TXL (Lundahl Transformer) … but I also don’t have the same hands, fingers or general style, and we all know how important those elements are as well!

Thanks again!

Sorry, one more video, this is a Lukather cover track remixed some days ago, to demonstrate my 'digging' :D



Again, very very cool … awesome playing. Your M5-24 sounds a bit more buttery in this vid and closer to mine than in the live video. Love it!

Doubling that solo on fretless though?!? :drool:

Well done!
 
Thank you for the nice write up!

Wow - you and I have a lot more in common than I might’ve thought. Same string gauges (45-130), more aggressive style and touch, I come from a more aggressive school of metal and rock and got into other styles later, slightly higher than lowest possible action and I mostly keep passive tone (VTC) maxed out and hardly ever use the onboard EQ.

In fact, I was convinced you were using lighter strings with a softer touch and had a perfectly dialed in EQ on deck with maybe a compressor of some kind.

Just killer, killer tone.

Where we definitely differ is that im using a newer, chambered NYC satin with the newer pickups as well. And I’m thinking that this is probably where the biggest differences are.

I was just playing around a bit and I can get close to your tone with the VTC backed off about 30%, bass up 20% and treble up about 50% … I also run my “always on” Cali77-TXL (Lundahl Transformer) … but I also don’t have the same hands, fingers or general style, and we all know how important those elements are as well!

Thanks again!



Again, very very cool … awesome playing. Your M5-24 sounds a bit more buttery in this vid and closer to mine than in the live video. Love it!

Doubling that solo on fretless though?!? :drool:

Well done!

Yes yes, I made some takes of the solo part (struggled with it, practiced for months.. :D) , but only one of them was satisfying so I deleted the other ones. But I liked the idea so I copied the best take, panned both full left/right and made a tiny offset time between them to get a simulated 'stereo' feeling. And of course strengthened with some stereo effects, delay..

This time the M5 setup was slightly different from the jazz setup, I used the neck pick-up more than bridge PU, for thicker 'rocky' sound - or buttery, creamy as you said. And what I've loved first sting - when I decided to make a background track for the solo, I tried to achieve some big, fat, 'bell'-like sound by light slapping and much gain, the result was breathtaking for me!! Never had such a bass sound so far, especially on the low C and B... Anthony Jackson was the biggest influence for me with this type of sound, but he used/ is using a different brand, we know.... :)
 
I just cannot understand why all the fuss about invisible fret ends. Over 50 odd years of regular gigging I have owned more basses then I can remember and fret sprout/ rolled edges has never been a significant issue. If occasionally I have needed to do a light file on fret ends it has been a simple five minute job. Fender has effectively been doing it for years with neck binding on some models, looks nice but more of a pain when you need to refret and nip the tang. Honestly, to me invisible frets is the last thing I would take into consideration when buying a bass.

Given the choice I would always select invisible frets. To those critical of it, I’m curious if you’ve ever tried a German Sadowsky with invisible frets. No more sharp ends ever. Having had many Sadowsky basses from NYC’s to Japanese to German Metros and German Masterbuilt basses I prefer the German made Sadowsky’s.

I don't think the invisible fret ends is a big deal. I also don't care for the Adjust-A-Nut. I'll take a properly cut regular nut every time. The Adjust-A-Nut's I've had on the German models I've owned were not cut properly. With only two points of adjustment there was no way to really get ideal string height at the nut for all 5 strings. It also seemed that the A string had a bit of flex but I didn't measure it to see if that was the case. My experience with a few different German Metros has not been entirely positive for multiple reasons and I no longer own any. I think the neck profile on the German made is better than the MIJ's but that is probably the only thing I found better. The hardware, electronics, and pickups were better on the MIJ's in my opinion. The German made basses are good but fall shy of being great.

Good comments but no one answered my question. Since German Sadowsky basses have it, did they start doing it on the current NYC basses as well?