Chef
In Memoriam
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
I've always found my ash/maple Sadowskys plenty warm and only as bright as I wanted them to be. And I've heard from more players that found their NYC ash/mp combos warmer than their Metros.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I think my rosewood-board basses have just as much high end and overall "brightness" as my maple-board basses, though the highs do seem to be sweeter with rosewood, and they seem to cut more with maple. I only have a few morado-board basses, but it seems to have just as much snap as maple, but a bit more warmth and sweetness.
This is all IME/IMHO, of course, and YMMV.
Tom.
Chef
In Memoriam
Tom;
mine are both Metro...
the diff I hear b/t my RV and MV, at least at this point, may be due to fresh blue steel on the RV, and "I don't know how long the blues were on the MV while it was on the shelf."
They both have plenty of top end, but at this point I run the VTC at about 60% shut on the RV and nearly all open on the MV.
Pretty similar top end, really, but it does present itself a little more on the RV right now. I've been meaning ot order some fresh strings for the MV, but haven't yet.
mine are both Metro...
the diff I hear b/t my RV and MV, at least at this point, may be due to fresh blue steel on the RV, and "I don't know how long the blues were on the MV while it was on the shelf."
They both have plenty of top end, but at this point I run the VTC at about 60% shut on the RV and nearly all open on the MV.
Pretty similar top end, really, but it does present itself a little more on the RV right now. I've been meaning ot order some fresh strings for the MV, but haven't yet.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Yeah, the string differences could be a big part of what you are hearing, as well.
I don't think the differences are as pronounced on the Metros because Morado is a harder wood than Rosewood and almost as bright a fingerboard wood as maple. My RV5 HC(metro) was still as bright as my S 5 (ash/maple) SC up high. The big difference I noted was it was a little bigger in the low mids. I actually preferred it for rockier stuff. It was a great bass and its sound though different was in no ways deficient to my MV5. If it was lighter I might have kept it over my NYC. If my finances weren't what they are I would have kept it regardless. It really excelled with Nickel strings while the NYC kills with stainless.
The PJ5 I picked up from ya has a midboost built into the wood, so no worries here!! I"ve never felt that I needed more mids in any Sadowsky I've had, but I completely understand having that WL pre if one were playing through uncertain backlines and had to deal with muddy-sounding rigs. I find that leaving the pre virtually flat and boosting the volume yields the most 'mid-heavy' tone, to my ears anyways.
@ morado vs maple vs rosewood boards...
First, IMHO, morado does have more going on way up high than maple, so it's a sweeter sizzlier tone. However, that comes at a price of some of that nice twang down around 2-3K, which gives a nice sheen and fret sound for fingerstyle.
The morado high end is high enough it kinda' disappears with fingerstyle compared to maple, tho it's really nice for slap, whereas the maple board can sound a bit harsh unless you back off the VTC a bit, in which case it's more polite, but still not quite as sweet as morado (or even rosewood for that matter). That "lower high end emphasis" of maple really serves me well in a mix because it allows me to have a more significant high end response and cut in the mix for normal playing (for me, which is fingerstyle). If I was more of a slapper, I might actually prefer morado... which IMHO is sort of on the "ebony side" of maple.
For the record, while I'm very much into ash/maple for a J/PJ bass, morado is definitely a favorite fingerboard wood for me, and I currently have it on three other basses. Kind of a "better ebony" if that makes sense.
Rosewood is a whole different ballgame. It yields a much warmer and maybe even fuller fingerstyle tone, and an equally sweet slap tone, but the high end is even more subdued. No ping there. Just smooth. Much more classic/old school. Not my thing for the most part, but the only way to go if you really want "that sound".
IMHO/IME, anyway.
First, IMHO, morado does have more going on way up high than maple, so it's a sweeter sizzlier tone. However, that comes at a price of some of that nice twang down around 2-3K, which gives a nice sheen and fret sound for fingerstyle.
The morado high end is high enough it kinda' disappears with fingerstyle compared to maple, tho it's really nice for slap, whereas the maple board can sound a bit harsh unless you back off the VTC a bit, in which case it's more polite, but still not quite as sweet as morado (or even rosewood for that matter). That "lower high end emphasis" of maple really serves me well in a mix because it allows me to have a more significant high end response and cut in the mix for normal playing (for me, which is fingerstyle). If I was more of a slapper, I might actually prefer morado... which IMHO is sort of on the "ebony side" of maple.
For the record, while I'm very much into ash/maple for a J/PJ bass, morado is definitely a favorite fingerboard wood for me, and I currently have it on three other basses. Kind of a "better ebony" if that makes sense.
Rosewood is a whole different ballgame. It yields a much warmer and maybe even fuller fingerstyle tone, and an equally sweet slap tone, but the high end is even more subdued. No ping there. Just smooth. Much more classic/old school. Not my thing for the most part, but the only way to go if you really want "that sound".
IMHO/IME, anyway.
Dude, I am SO with you on this. I've been doing the ash/maple thing for quite some time at this point, but more recently, I got that older NYC J5 with single-coils after hearing clips of Ken's orange bomber, and that's really what got me the most fired up about it on Sadowsky basses. That, plus some NAMM experiences... especially when the first Metro PJ came out and I played the ash/maple 4 banger. Wow. At least with Sadowsky basses, as evidenced by my collection, ash/maple is just big time "home base" for me. I've tried other combos... truly great basses... but just pale in comparison for what I go for.
I'm so glad, tho not surprised, you're having a similar magical experience to mine. Trust me when I say, it doesn't go away. You'll be loving that bass for a LONG time to come. Believe that.
I have heard that maple boards are the way to go on Sadowskys because with the VTC you can pretty much match any of the tones of marado or rosewood, but you can't match the tone of maple with those woods. The VTC allows you to control, if need be, those upper highs on a maple board. On rosewood or marado boards, you don't have that option because the VTC will only make it darker/warmer.
I think this is an over simplification.....
Rolling the highs off of a maple board will certainly tame it from excessive highs, but it is not the same as having a rosewood board.
Roger
I absolutely concur... after having done this many times, and having played both configs many times.
It is completely about preference.
I have owned several maple FB basses, many with ash including two Sadowskys, and I have never warmed up to any of them. There something about the attack of them that I just can't appreciate. The VTC is a very cool option, but I wouldn't say that dialing it back creates the effect you describe.
Although all of this discussion does lead to the "enlightening" comment that I mentioned earlier. ElMon casually mentioned in another thread that you have to find the "right Sadowsky for you." Well, this is obviously a big "DUH" for most, but for me it did strike home.
There's no denying I got caught up in the TB ash/maple hype. If the more general consensus is that ash/maple is the shizzle, then I wanted to give it a go. I never considered at the time that I had owned Fenders, Lakland, Pedulla, G&L and at least a few others in ash/maple and didn't really dig those either. I don't know exactly what it is, but there is something about the way those basses respond to the attack that makes me "afraid" to really play. I have never experienced with an Alder/RW bass.
It's almost like an SUV guy buying a Porsche and expecting to like it because it's a Porsche even though it is still a sports car. Sadowsky may in fact make the nicest ash/maple bolt-ons in existence, but they are still ash/maple bolts.
I still have a few reservations, especially about the B strings, but there is no denying the attraction of Sadowsky basses. I simply could not shake the general feel and playability of them. I have never played anything more enjoyable.
So, in my fickle nature, I am gear swapping again, it seems. I have a couple of "new" Sadowskys coming my way in the coming days. Neither of which are ash bodied and neither of which have maple FBs!!!
More details, and of course photos, once I have shipping confirmation. I am the first to put the cart before the horse, but in the .01% chance that something falls through, I don't want to tip my hand too soon.
Chef
In Memoriam
Thank you for your detailed response Chasarms. As I said, this is only what I heard, and I know this won't change feel or attack. It would only potentially affect tone. I usually play alder/rosewood (fender) and am drawn to those basses, but have played some ash/maples (70's fenders) that were mind blowing! Just trying to find out what is realistically possible with an ash/maple Sadowsky and how much I can get away with. Thanks guys.
To chime in on the fretboard discussion, I am pretty much a maple fretboard guy for life. For whatever reason, my fingers are just USED to feeling that very hard, solid wood for bends and slight vibrato. The rosewood feels too soft under my fingers, and I dont feel like I can get those slight bends and such as nicely as I can on the maple board.
I need to get that VTC retrofit sooner than later, hopefully placing my order this weekend if some gig money comes in the mail!
I need to get that VTC retrofit sooner than later, hopefully placing my order this weekend if some gig money comes in the mail!
Just to further elaborate:
With ash/maple there is an artifact on the front of the note, like a pop or ping, some kind of percussive thing, that just isn't there to my ear with a RW board. I don't know exactly what it is, but it bugs me so bad I fight it the whole gig or end up rolling off a lot of the top end and getting buried in the mix. Like I said, it is so obvious to me that I am "afraid" everyone is hearing it. I don't want to play out.
It could be a technique thing because to some degree, I have fought it with every maple FB bass I have ever had.
With ash/maple there is an artifact on the front of the note, like a pop or ping, some kind of percussive thing, that just isn't there to my ear with a RW board. I don't know exactly what it is, but it bugs me so bad I fight it the whole gig or end up rolling off a lot of the top end and getting buried in the mix. Like I said, it is so obvious to me that I am "afraid" everyone is hearing it. I don't want to play out.
It could be a technique thing because to some degree, I have fought it with every maple FB bass I have ever had.
Chasarms that's pretty interesting and I think I know what you are talking about. It's the attack of the maple board that enables this up front ping activity. The thing about maple boards that I have had a problem with in the past is fret buzzing and string 'clatter'. I know this can be adjusted with setup but IME it wasn't able to be dealt with as well as the rosewood boards were.
