Club Sadowsky!!!

[MF_Maher]

After playing a Lakland 55-02 for about three years and suffering from hand, wrist, and forearm discomfort (it hurt to shake hands with someone), I went back to a four-string when I got my MV4 in September 2006. Occasionally I do miss a lower note, but going back to four was like "coming home"--and I don't have the pain/discomfort issues like I did when I played the five-string.

 

[KJung]

In keeping w/ the 4 string "pocket/groove" sensibility, I thought I'd share a quote from the Feb. '08 issue of BP, by John Paul Jones: " It makes the rhythm come alive when you leave holes for the drums to pop out." It's one thing to call it "cliche", but quite another to execute. Groove is a very elusive aspect of rhythm section playing.
I'd like to hear some opinions on who has "groove". I'm not talkin' "chops", although I'd trade all the chops in the world for solid groove.

B.
Edit: Just to clarify - I'm not sayin' that groove is necessarily exclusive to 4 string players - It's just that a good deal of rhythm section players I remember have 4 bangers as their bass of choice. jus' sayin'

Never did understand why anyone would in any way correlate the number of strings on a bass with anything other than having a more extended range. There are many gigs where I literally never play the B string on my 5's, and I sound no different on a 5 versus a 4. If you put in the time, there is literally nothing you can't do on a 5 that you can do on a 4, although for slap style, the muting takes a bit more woodshedding.

It makes sense that different players prefer a 4 or a 5 from a 'physical' perspective, or just not being interested in the additional fingering positions and note options available (which may be unimportant for many players), but IMO there is no correlation to 'how a player plays or sounds'. Actually, one of the big draws of all these boutique J's and P's out now is that you can get a relatively classic tone out of a 5 string bass. It used to be that those of us that found the extended range of a 5 string being a positive had to move to coffee table land... not any more

 

[Saluki]

Just got back from a rehearsal/walkthrough for a gig I am doing this coming weekend. The show is a big benefit deal and the guy that fronts it is a kind of a jazzed up James Taylor for lack of a better descriptor. It's about 70/30 EBG/DB.

I'm playing mostly the modern and the PJ on a couple of blues tunes. I'm altogether jacked about both. But, here's the current rub:

The supplied backline is GB shuttle 6.0 and a GB210. I was not digging it. I very much prefer my F1.

I think for the sake of ease and peace among all the parties (this rig was supplied by a sponsor) I should use it. Any thoughts on getting the best "Sadowsky" sound out of it?

If all else fails, I could probably slip in the F1 easily enough and run it through that GB cab.

Charles,

With the shuttle 6.0 and just a 210 you are probbly not going to experience the fullness that the sadowsky brings to the table. IF you have no FOH and are playing pretty low volume I would suggest you at least try the low end boost on the shuttle 6.0. May not work for ya, but I find the low end boost on like the Eden 405, the MB fusion, and the shuttle amps to be pretty effective at low volumes with small cabs to kinda fill out the sound.

On a side note, I ran my Sadowsky through my M6 and AE210/AE410 this weekend at church with full FOH and I didn't need any low end boost. Actually the low end may have helped some with their daily ritual.

 

[LeonD]

Regarding the GB Shuttle's, the low end boost isn't actually a boost. It sets the frequency of a low end pass filter. The 6.0 is designed to work with the Shuttle cabinets and to get the best results, the low end is cut back with the button deselected.

With non Shuttle cabinets, selecting the low end button just lets more low end thru. It doesn't boost anything.

Additionally, the Shuttle 9.0 is not designed to work with the Shuttle cabinets. It has even more low end than the 6.0.

 

[craigb43]

When I first got my 5 string basses I played only those for the first probably 5 or 6 years , then I decided to drag out my old jazz bass and had a 74 P bass come my way , now I am pretty much only playing the 4 strings again , but I still enjoy grabbing the 5 every once and a while , and I know I will use them again depending on the band and the vibe .

 

[LeonD]

I started on 4's and played them for a long time. Every now and then I'd try a 5. I noticed that I'd play differently on the 5. And not in a good way.

Chances are I never gave the 5 enough of a chance and wasn't will to tackle the learning curve it would take to make the 5 natural.

The only time I play a 5 now is with it strung with a high C in either a solo or duo setting where I need to play chords.

 

[4-string]

Whatever works for you, personally I have never had any real need for a 5-string, and have never wanted one. To be honest, I was quite put off by the whole 5-string craze back in the mid 80s. Too bad I didn't have the money then to buy all the 4-stringers people were selling.

I tune down to D on a few tunes, and to C on one, no biggie.

 

[Chasarms]

You see - this is the reaction I ALWAYS get from 5er players when talking Groove. You guys always focus on defending your reason for playing a 5er. I Qualified my statement by saying that groove ISN'T exclusive to 4 string bass. Did you READ my post? The operative word here is SENSIBILITY. The 5 & 6 string bass may provide more notes but groove isn't about more notes - it's about LESS notes as it were.(not so simple but ...). If you wanna talk GROOVE I'll talk but I'm not gonna get into defending my instrument.

Yes, I read every word of it, more than once, and still see no correlation AT ALL between "groove" and the number of strings on your bass. "Less notes" is about attention to rhythm, being very aware of AND APPRECIATING the space in the music, and FAR more interested in the combined result of the efforts of the ensemble than making sure you get in your licks. None of this has to do with the number of strings on your instrument. Nor do I understand what is literal or implied about "sensibility"?

Players groove, basses don't.

I have no need or interest in defending my position for what I play. Nor should you.

In the right setting, I could play a four all night and be as happy as a bug in a rug. I do it all the time on my DB gigs. But, if I am playing a Gospel number in Eb or D, there's no getting around not having those root notes in the "bass" range without alternate tuning, which I absolutely despise. So, I bought a five.

If I am coming off strong, forgive me. But,this discussion has been done ad nauseam at TB and seldom with any merit.

 

[Vic]

Guys, FWIW, I didn't read P.Bass's posts to correlate the number of strings to the groove... in fact, ironically, I read his post to generally say the same things you guys are saying.

I think he was simply responding to the guys that were talking about going 5 and not going back to 4... like maybe some might interpret that to mean a 5 is always a better bass to have.

I figured he was just saying (really, as you guys are) that you don't need that 5th string to groove (just exactly as you all are saying having that 5th string doesn't affect the ability to groove, either.)

Maybe I misread him, but that's the way I took it.

In other words, "stop, you're both right!"

 

[Chasarms]

Charles,

With the shuttle 6.0 and just a 210 you are probbly not going to experience the fullness that the sadowsky brings to the table. . .

I think this was the biggest beef. And, walking away, I had no real sense if it was the cab or the head. The cab makes more sense. I know that "our" DB112s have a nice, thick presence about them. That is likely what I am accoustomed to.

This is a big gig by my standards. We'll probably have 600-800 or so minimum. There is a big FOH system and all the bells and whistles. The only issue is if I don't have that low end presence, I tend to fight the instrument. It's on me I know, but it is what it is.

We'll see what happens when all is in place and things are going. I am pre-EQ to the snake, so I can probably get away with fattening it up a bit without causing too many problems.

 

[Chasarms]

. . .I think he was simply responding to the guys that were talking about going 5 and not going back to 4... like maybe some might interpret that to mean a 5 is always a better bass to have . . .

If this is the case, then why didn't he just type "Jaco only needed four strings" and call it a day?

I'm not a fighter. I am a lover!!!! And, I love me some P. Bass. So, in his honor I submit:

Can you groove a five-string bass?

You can groove a five-string bass.
You can groove one any place!

Can you groove to modern Funk?

You can groove to modern funk.
You can groove to old-school punk.
You can groove a five-string bass.
You can groove one any place!

Can you groove to classic Motown?

You can groove to classic Motown.
You can groove one at a hoe down!
You can groove to modern funk.
You can groove to old-school punk.
You can groove a five-string bass.
You can groove one any place!

Can you groove one like a four?

You can groove one like a four.
Must we discuss this any more?

You can groove to classic Motown.
You can groove one at a hoe down!
You can groove to modern funk.
You can groove to old-school punk.
You can groove a five-string bass.
You can groove one any place!

Can groove one strung with flats?
Well, I don't really know about that!

 

[Vic]

If this is the case, then why didn't he just type "Jaco only needed four strings" and call it a day?

I'm not a fighter. I am a lover!!!! And, I love me some P. Bass. So, in his honor I submit:

Can you groove a five-string bass?

You can groove a five-string bass.
You can groove one any place!...

OMGOSH he did it again... LOL!!

 

[Joeykun]

And then there's guys like Joey who have gone BACK, strictly to 4's after giving 5ers a fair shot.
B.

Well, yes I now play 4s but, not because I gave 5s a fair shot......

I played 5ers throughout the 90's because my gigging situation required the extended range.
I didnt even own a 4 banger back then. I bought my first Sadowsky bass which was my red
Standard 4 and it was real fun to play. I sold my Quantum 5 and bought an MS5 and then later
a NYC Standard 5. I gigged those regularly for a few years.

Now my gigging situation has changed and I am strickly using 4 bangers with D-Tuners. At the
moment I dont own a 5 string. But, that has not made me strickly a 4 string guy. The 4 bangers
are whats working now. I will own a Sadowsky 5er again but until then, 4 strings it is!!

Both can groove and that is all that matters.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I think he was simply responding to the guys that were talking about going 5 and not going back to 4... like maybe some might interpret that to mean a 5 is always a better bass to have.

The original question was specifically directed at five string players. To paraphrase: "how many of you who buy a five string stop playing your fours? I have a couple of nice Sadowsky fours and I hate to think they'll sit around unused". A few of us said we no longer played four, but no one said or implied that five string was better than four overall... that would be ridiculous. I am a groove player, and 5 is better for me. For others it could be four, six, three, seven, whatever. I hope we all agree here.


Back on topic, my new Sadowsky MM is just killin'! Again, it's the Sadowsky take on the MM vibe, in the same way that the other models (Modern excepted) are the Sadowsky take on the Fender vibe. I've been using it for rock, but I'll gig it with the Motown band first chance I get. I'm so happy with the blue label steels on this bass that I think I'm gonna stick with 'em. They sound great, even the B string, even detuned a half step.

 

[MikeBass]

Well, yes I now play 4s but, not because I gave 5s a fair shot......

I played 5ers throughout the 90's because my gigging situation required the extended range.
I didnt even own a 4 banger back then. I bought my first Sadowsky bass which was my red
Standard 4 and it was real fun to play. I sold my Quantum 5 and bought an MS5 and then later
a NYC Standard 5. I gigged those regularly for a few years.

Now my gigging situation has changed and I am strickly using 4 bangers with D-Tuners. At the
moment I dont own a 5 string. But, that has not made me strickly a 4 string guy. The 4 bangers
are whats working now. I will own a Sadowsky 5er again but until then, 4 strings it is!!

Both can groove and that is all that matters.

I've own 4's, 5's and 6's.
I pretty much ALWAYS prefer to play a 4. But gigs may dictate otherwise.
That is until HipShot came out with the Double Stop lever.
I can play almost as well in dropped D tuning as I can in normal E. But with the Double Stop lever, I have drop d, and now I have the second position set to low B eek.

So now, I can pretty much cover ANY gig on a 4. And have been doing so on gigs where I may normally take my 5.

 

[The Butler]

Mike,
How is the double stop lever? Did you need to adjust the action on the E string or use a heavier gauge? I am considering one of these. I remember reading that Will Lee drops down to C# on his E string. But to be able to D then to B if needed would be excellent.

 

[Chasarms]

. . . Now my gigging situation has changed and I am strickly using 4 bangers with D-Tuners. . . .

I tried that first before going to five strings. I didn't actually put a D-tuner on my bass, but I did tune it down to D to get the D and Eb I was looking for. I just never could really get my brain to fully embrace it.

I VERY rarely play lines from memory. Nearly all the playing I do is site reading of some sort (charts, lead sheets, notation, whatever), or I get a recording a few days ahead and I note out the changes and the form. I just can't focus on that and also make the mental ascension to "you're in an alternate tuning so your note is there instead of there." The five is much easier for me in that respect.

I hope I don't come across as a four string basher. I really would like to have a SADOWSKY four string. Just because wouldn't play it that much, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a joy to own. If I ever catch another straight pop, rock or country gig, I will probably buy one.

 

[MikeBass]

In keeping w/ the 4 string "pocket/groove" sensibility, I thought I'd share a quote from the Feb. '08 issue of BP, by John Paul Jones: " It makes the rhythm come alive when you leave holes for the drums to pop out." It's one thing to call it "cliche", but quite another to execute. Groove is a very elusive aspect of rhythm section playing.
I'd like to hear some opinions on who has "groove". I'm not talkin' "chops", although I'd trade all the chops in the world for solid groove.
B.
Edit: Just to clarify - I'm not sayin' that groove is necessarily exclusive to 4 string players - It's just that a good deal of rhythm section players I remember have 4 bangers as their bass of choice. jus' sayin'

Why????
Who said you don't now. And why are chops and groove in two different camps?

You see - this is the reaction I ALWAYS get from 5er players when talking Groove. You guys always focus on defending your reason for playing a 5er. I Qualified my statement by saying that groove ISN'T exclusive to 4 string bass. Did you READ my post? The operative word here is SENSIBILITY. The 5 & 6 string bass may provide more notes but groove isn't about more notes - it's about LESS notes as it were.(not so simple but ...). If you wanna talk GROOVE I'll talk but I'm not gonna get into defending my instrument. I'm trying to start something, for a change, that precludes tone, spec & all the other stuff that's been flogged to death.
(& yes - I still love ya Chas) . I would now like to get some feedback on my inquiry IF anyone's interested.

B.
PS: & yeah - jazz has been played on 4 strings forever.(speaking of groove)

-1
I disagree here.

Less does not equal more. It equals less.
Period.
Thank God really no one ever pushed that- IMO- narrow view on someone like Rocco for example.

Listen with you ass and not with your eyes.....if your ass is shakin' then who cares how much the bass player is playin'...

I'd love to have someone play "Come on Come Over" with the "less is more" approach.
There would be no groove at all.

It's not about "less" notes, it's about the RIGHT notes. And if there is a billion of them, I'll take that ANY day or "Less is more"....

 

[MikeBass]

Mike,
How is the double stop lever? Did you need to adjust the action on the E string or use a heavier gauge? I am considering one of these. I remember reading that Will Lee drops down to C# on his E string. But to be able to D then to B if needed would be excellent.

It works pretty damn good to be honest. I have it on my old PRS 4 string
Here:


I'm gonna re-do it after the holidays.
I just tossed it up real quick, so dis-regard the slop I'm spitting out .
It was just recorded using the mic and camera on my MacBook, so the quality isn't the best.

At the time I made the video it was just tuned to low C, I now go to B.
I did also bump up my E from .100 to .105 and it seems to help.
Didn't touch my action at all.
You do have to be a little gentle when you go that low on the lighter string tho. Bang that string too hard and it gets a little blurry. But with a consistant even touch, IMO, it can sound real real good.

 

[KJung]

I think someone posted this up before, but what the heck. Just got my Bass Player magazine. Front cover and primary interview... Ricky Minor with is Sadowsky. Primary non-cover interview... Greg Lake with a Sadowsky in the main interview picture. Full back cover photo spread ad.... Tom Hamilton... with his hybrid Sadowsky P.

It's literally an infestation