Compact Back-Up

[hardtop]

Hello all, I've been reading and reading the forums, but wanted to get a few more thoughts on my specific situation. I play an SLM SVT-CL. Its been good to me but has blown tubes in less than ideal situations. I pretty much always bring a backup to shows and on the road. Now that my band is traveling/touring a little more I am thinking of trading in my faithful vintage Acoustic 370 for a smaller back-up amp. the acoustic sounds great and is unbelievably loud (sooo loud), but its full sized and one of the heavier solid state amps I've come across. Space in the van are becoming bigger issues these days so a compact amp that can fit in my backpack seems ideal.
SO, i really like the idea of a tube preamp. the new GK heads look awesome, but they are over my budget for a back-up. I was thinking about trying to find a used GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0. obvioulsy I know it wont sound like an SVT, but I was wondering i a tube pre-amp might lean that direction. Maybe not? People seem to like the Little Mark II/III's tone, but I believe they are all solid state, correct? I havent loved many all solid state amps to be honest; Acoustic 370, the GK 800RB, and the Sunn Beta are the ones that come to mind. How do the Mark amps compare tone-ally?
Anyone else in a similar situation and what's your compact lightweight backup?

Thanks for your thoughts and input gents.

 

[David Jayne]

It's been said by a particular Ampeg endorser here that the Little Mark heads come very, very close.

 

[B-string]

Wait, the G-K is too expensive but you are looking at MarkBass that runs about 30% more in cost?

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Fender Rumble V3. Is my backup.
Cheap, reliable loud and good tone. No tube, but it has a tubey character.
A tube preamp adds some tubiness...
Mark bass is good too as mentioned, but kind of expensive as a backup.

Carvin has some killer micros on the cheap too.

If you are looking at spending in the 700.00 range
You should take a look at the Mesa D800 (my main head)

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Keep the Acoustic, get a larger van. Problem solved.

 

[cfsporn]

Ampeg PF-350?

 

[mbelue]

How much room does everyone else have in the van?
What is every other band member eliminating?

 

[hardtop]

Wait, the G-K is too expensive but you are looking at MarkBass that runs about 30% more in cost?

Well, I should have specified Im shopping in the used market. I have seen several LMII's and III's for under 400 bucks but I am not seeing I'm many used GK Fusions used at that price point yet. thats basically where im at price wise.

Keep the Acoustic, get a larger van. Problem solved.

Couple things factor in: first, Id like something smaller and lighter, that doesn't require a trip to the van. next, most sound guys use the DI on my SVT head. If the SVT were to die in the middle of the set, what i want to be able to do is pull the power, xlr, and instrument cables and plug them in to the mini head sitting on top. the acoustic requires a DI. this isnt an issue for most gigs we play as the venues are small enough and we play loud enough, that there is probably no bass in the PA anyway. However, we were recently offered a "house of blues" tour (which we sadly couldnt do) and in those situations, the DI on the amp would be ideal. Im NOT giving up my '78 Chevy Beauville either

Ampeg PF-350?

Thank you, I hadn't looked at that one. I was kind of focused on the tube preamp and then started hearing good things about Markbass. Looks like they are a little bigger and a couple lbs heavier, but still manageable. and they are priced great. Ill check them out.

How much room does everyone else have in the van?
What is every other band member eliminating?

they actually are attempting to downsize. on local gigs we bring a Sunn Beta lead as the back-up for both guitars. on the few small tours we've done we've brought the Sunn and another full sized tube guitar amp, in case we lose two and dont have time to stop for repairs. the goal is to replace the full size guitar amp with something compact before we go out on the road again. Believe it or not, we've purchased a Crate power block... the verdict is still out on whether or not it will be the backup for guitar. But, even if they weren't. Id like to leave the 370 at home.

None of these little guys go to 2 ohms do they? i'd have to drop a cabinet of my rig but i guess that's not the end of the world, in a back-up situation of course.

thanks for your thoughts guys!

 

[mbelue]

None of these little guys go to 2 ohms do they? i'd have to drop a cabinet of my rig but i guess that's not the end of the world, in a back-up situation of course.

A few do. The Carvin BX500/bx700 do.
Same goes for the new Mesa Subway amp. You could also find a used Orange Terrorbass they produce full wattage at either 4 or 8 ohms so a series box would get your 2@4ohms without appreciable wattage loss.
There is also the Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12/12.2 which has dual poweramps 4ohms apiece.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[hardtop]

A few do. The Carvin BX500/bx700 do.
Same goes for the new Mesa Subway amp. You could also find a used Orange Terrorbass they produce full wattage at either 4 or 8 ohms so a series box would get your 2@4ohms without appreciable wattage loss.
There is also the Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12/12.2 which has dual poweramps 4ohms apiece.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

thank you for the info. i checked out both carvins and the mesa, they all look like great options and the carvins are priced well too. als, i dont think they will work for me; here's why (i think):
I run two 4 ohm cabs off my SVT CL at 2 ohms. Because the SVT has only one speakon connector, to run both cabinets, I have to use the pair 1/4" output jacks. the BX500 only has speakon connectors, so thats out. the Mesa and BX700 have one of each, a speakon and a 1/4"... I dont want to be changing speaker cables on stage, or carry and extra set. Also, it my understanding, at least on my svt, that i can't use a speakon cable AND a 1/4" cable to run 2 cabinets, that somehow, the speakon connection defeats the 1/4" output jacks... I would assume its the same with the Carvin and the Mesa... but I obviously don't know much about the topic.

What is a series box?

 

[mbelue]

A series box takes a single input from your amplifier and has 2 output connectors. These output connectors are connected to each other internally in series, as in the power goes into one connector, out to its speaker, back from its speaker, to the next connector, out to its speaker and back to the amplifier. Making one big loop.
As opposed to your standard connection which makes one loop (electrically speaking) per speaker.

Series speakers add their impedance as opposed to "dividing" like normal.
So in series 2 4ohm loads become 1-8 ohm load.
Whereas in parallel(normal) 2 4ohm loads become 1- 2ohm load.

If you are purchasing a new amplifier the correct cables to hook it up is a VERY minor expense. You wouldn't be changing speakers cables "on stage". Its the same one cable per cabinet hookup you do now. You just use the newer(and standard btw) connectors to connect them.

I'm quite certain if you ask about in your area you can find a technically inclined musician to introduce you to Speakon connectors. They really are a better connector.

BTW what speakers are you using?

 

[hardtop]

Thanks for the reply and explanation. A couple thoughts. First, I'm not buying a new amp, Im buying a back-up; it wont be played unless my SVT fails. The intent is to seamlessly switch from my failed amp to the back-up. I need to be able to do this during a set or even a song. So the parameters that the back-up must meet are to use the same cables as the SVT.
I'm aware of speakon connectors and own cables. I do use the speakon output jack on my SVT when I am connected to one (1) 4 ohm cabinet. But my SVT only has ONE speakon jack, so I cannot use speakon cables to connect both my cabinets. It has to be 1/4" because that is all that is available on the main amp, the SVT (which by the way, supports only 2 and 4 ohm loads).

Would you like to know what speakers are in the cabinets, or what cabinets I am using?

 

[StuartV]

I have an original Ibanez Promethean head that I carry around as a backup. Small and light. 500W into 4 ohms.

I also have a Sansamp BDDI. I generally set it to the settings for "SVT emulation".

When I'm worried that my SVT will have an issue, I setup the SABDDI and Promethean head right on top, already plugged in. It happened once that power in a venue caused my SVT 2 Pro to keep shutting down. After about the 3rd song, I moved the instrument cable, speaker cable, and DI cable from the SVT to the SABDDI and Promethean rig. A good friend of mine who has gigged for many years using an old SVT never even noticed a change in sound. He thought I was still using the SVT all night.

If I were buying a new SS amp today, I would get the new Peavey MiniMEGA 1000. You really cannot have too much power, but you definitely can have too little. It's $600 and 1000W RMS. Also has a built-in compressor and a 4-band semi-parametric EQ. Reviews on it are really good. With a SABDDI (or VT Deluxe pedal) and pretty much any decent SS head, I think you can get a sound that is "like" an SVT enough to be very acceptable for any live gig.

 

[mbelue]

Gotcha that is a better picture of what you're looking to do.

You can keep a Invalid Link Removed attached to your backup.

I've a pair and they do the trick.

 

[hardtop]

If you are purchasing a new amplifier the correct cables to hook it up is a VERY minor expense. You wouldn't be changing speakers cables "on stage". Its the same one cable per cabinet hookup you do now. You just use the newer(and standard btw) connectors to connect them.

I'm quite certain if you ask about in your area you can find a technically inclined musician to introduce you to Speakon connectors. They really are a better connector.

BTW what speakers are you using?

Oooh look at this. the BX500 outputs are actually these clever little dual function jacks. that might work!

BX500 Lightweight 500W Bass Amp Head

 

[/\/\3phist0]

thank you for the info. i checked out both carvins and the mesa, they all look like great options and the carvins are priced well too. als, i dont think they will work for me; here's why (i think):
I run two 4 ohm cabs off my SVT CL at 2 ohms. Because the SVT has only one speakon connector, to run both cabinets, I have to use the pair 1/4" output jacks. the BX500 only has speakon connectors, so thats out. the Mesa and BX700 have one of each, a speakon and a 1/4"... I dont want to be changing speaker cables on stage, or carry and extra set. Also, it my understanding, at least on my svt, that i can't use a speakon cable AND a 1/4" cable to run 2 cabinets, that somehow, the speakon connection defeats the 1/4" output jacks... I would assume its the same with the Carvin and the Mesa... but I obviously don't know much about the topic.

What is a series box?

No the Mesa D800 has 2 speakons. Speakon to 1/4" cables are prevalent, and adapters are even less expensive.

 

[hardtop]

Gotcha that is a better picture of what you're looking to do.

You can keep a Invalid Link Removed attached to your backup.

I've a pair and they do the trick.

Well all right. thank you sir. the amps with 2 ohm options that you sent me, would let me go on trucking without missing a beat, thank you!

 

[StuartV]

I'm aware of speakon connectors and own cables. I do use the speakon output jack on my SVT when I am connected to one (1) 4 ohm cabinet. But my SVT only has ONE speakon jack, so I cannot use speakon cables to connect both my cabinets. It has to be 1/4" because that is all that is available on the main amp, the SVT (which by the way, supports only 2 and 4 ohm loads).

Would you like to know what speakers are in the cabinets, or what cabinets I am using?

I would not let a cable connector stand in the way of doing what I want to do. If I needed to ditch Speakon and use 1/4" cables to ensure a quick change to another amp, I would do that.

FYI, if you are using 2 cabinets, you don't have to connect them both to the SVT. You COULD, for example, connect the SVT to the first cab with your Speakon cable and then daisy chain from cab 1 to cab 2 using a 1/4" cable.

In that example, if your backup amp did not have Speakon, you could have a 1/4" cable plugged into the backup amp. If you change over from one amp to the other, you could unplug the cable from the SVT to cab 1 and plug the 1/4" cable from the backup amp into either cab. This is assuming at least one cab has 2 1/4" jacks, which they generally all do.

Daisy chaining 2 cabs has the added benefit that you only have to unplug/plug 1 cable from/to the amp. The cable between the 2 cabs stays where it is.

If your backup amp doesn't support 2 ohms and you are using 2 4 ohm cabs, daisy chain them with a 1/4" cable that is long enough to reach the backup amp. At changeover, unplug the Speakon from the SVT, unplug the 1/4" cable connecting the two cabs from the cab you don't want to use, and plug it into the backup amp.

 

[hardtop]

I would not let a cable connector stand in the way of doing what I want to do. If I needed to ditch Speakon and use 1/4" cables to ensure a quick change to another amp, I would do that.

FYI, if you are using 2 cabinets, you don't have to connect them both to the SVT. You COULD, for example, connect the SVT to the first cab with your Speakon cable and then daisy chain from cab 1 to cab 2 using a 1/4" cable.

In that example, if your backup amp did not have Speakon, you could have a 1/4" cable plugged into the backup amp. If you change over from one amp to the other, you could unplug the cable from the SVT to cab 1 and plug the 1/4" cable from the backup amp into either cab. This is assuming at least one cab has 2 1/4" jacks, which they generally all do.

Daisy chaining 2 cabs has the added benefit that you only have to unplug/plug 1 cable from/to the amp. The cable between the 2 cabs stays where it is.

If your backup amp doesn't support 2 ohms and you are using 2 4 ohm cabs, daisy chain them with a 1/4" cable that is long enough to reach the backup amp. At changeover, unplug the Speakon from the SVT, unplug the 1/4" cable connecting the two cabs from the cab you don't want to use, and plug it into the backup amp.

Good point. but those adapter pretty much solve my problems. And my cabinets only have one 1/4" output jack. I wouldn't let this stop me either, i could take the panel off and wire another jack in one of them. so if i daisy chain (2)4 ohm cabs and plug one cable into the amp, What load is the amp seeing? is it still 2 ohms?

 

[StuartV]

Good point. but those adapter pretty much solve my problems. And my cabinets only have one 1/4" output jack. I wouldn't let this stop me either, i could take the panel off and wire another jack in one of them. so if i daisy chain (2)4 ohm cabs and plug one cable into the amp, What load is the amp seeing? is it still 2 ohms?

Yes - assuming you wire the new jack in parallel.

If you're worried about quickly changing from one amp to another, having them daisy chained, so you only have to unplug/plug one speaker cable from one amp to another would cut your time down...