I'm not upset, it just hadn't been addressed and I'm really curious why it's been said so many times
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Comparing the tone of three different "boutique" cables
- Thread starter bongomania
- Start date
FWIW john, I'm just having a friendly discussion too--I may disagree with your examples, but I'm not trying to insult or diss you.
i'm all for hugs and making up and more graphs of cables!
I also agree that testing wireless systems would be pretty handy. Of course those are expensive...
I also agree that testing wireless systems would be pretty handy. Of course those are expensive...
Glad to hear that bongo. Oh btw, so because audio and our ears were tested to this nth degree, you're saying it's been tested enough? that we know all we need to know about it? just curious as to your rationale behind that statement.
For people asking whether I can do this with cheap cables or with Monster etc., the answer is back on page 5. 
And as noted in that last bit, the tests are ongoing--I will be applying more different tests as the tools become available to me. And I'm totally open to suggestions of new tests! The one about musical material as opposed to pink noise is a bit tricky to do scientifically--but I'll work on it.
This first test method here is as follows:
RTA software (TrueRTA) generates a pink noise test signal, and sends it to the output of my audio converter (a PreSonus Firestudio Mobile). The cable being tested is plugged into the output of that box, and the other end of the cable is plugged into the input.
I'm still waiting on the arrival of the capacitance meter I ordered, but I did receive some of the cables I ordered, so here is another spectrum analysis shot:
Link Removed
Link Removed
I think this forum shrinks attached photos to fit, so click on the link to see the full-size version.
Musician's Gear 20', $8.89, approx. 1 ohm resistance
Analysis + 20', $159.00, approx. 0.2 ohms resistance
Horizon 20', $10.99, approx. 0.8 ohms
Evidence 20', $155.00, approx. 0.3 ohms
So the expensive cables do have demonstrably lower resistance than the cheaper ones. Also, interestingly, the resistance readings for the two cheap ones bounced all over the map, from very high to very low, so the numbers I picked were the numbers they settled on for the longest period; whereas both of the expensive ones were very stable in their readings. Now, it's important to note that my DMM is a cheap one, and its accuracy in this very low resistance range is questionable. So take this bit about the resistance as an "interesting observation" rather than hard scientific data.
And as noted in that last bit, the tests are ongoing--I will be applying more different tests as the tools become available to me. And I'm totally open to suggestions of new tests! The one about musical material as opposed to pink noise is a bit tricky to do scientifically--but I'll work on it.
+1
I am curious around your findings with other cables if possible, despite popular belief lol
No, I'm not saying we've reached the end of possibility--I am saying that we have done so much testing that comparisons to primitive villagers observing the stars, or Madame Curie getting radiation sickness, are not even remotely apples-to-apples.
An example that approaches "appleness" and might support your position is something like relativity or quarks. We have been applying all our known science to them, and we still can't say a whole lot with certainty, and new potentially-valid hypotheses pop up semi regularly.
The difference with acoustics and psychoacoustics is that the published test results can be independently verified with relative ease, without having to resort to supercolliders where they can only measure the probability of a given result having occurred.
If the advancement in the way we measure sound is as astounding as such previous findings with radiation and stars, then i propose it does have some appleness as u so wonderfully put it lol
Remember...one day we will be considered the primitive villagers, even if we can't imagine it.
Remember...one day we will be considered the primitive villagers, even if we can't imagine it.
john, will you please satisfy my curiosity: why are you so adamant defending the idea that the science of tomorrow may invalidate the ideas of today? with regard to instrument cables I mean
nah, no need to go back to lurking...but tb is a place where pseudo science isn't very well tolerated and good science is respected, as you insinuate in your third paragraphi 100% agree with you, bongo. It is the constant testing, debunking, and retesting of scientific truths that makes science continue to be a relevant field today. I myself am not casting any doubt on your findings, i think that they are INCREDIBLY interesting.
I guess i'm mainly just being philosophical, when i really need to shut up and go back to lurking...
it also takes a lot of balls to buy one of the helio-whatever 150 dollar cables that you bought, i remember the thread where they were first mentioned, and the pr guy who replied to the email said he wasn't at liberty to disclose what made them better, to just trust him that they were better. Bull.
and i believe bongo's science to be good.
the same reason you're adamant against it, my dear Execut1ve lol I've already told bongo i'm interested in future findings (and I myself will try ABX testing of this eventually), i'm not trying to give him a hard time, i was just pointing out a possible theory as to why the results are what they are, as opposed to the "YES! cable makers are evil" point of view...just trying to add perspective to the situation. If that is not appreciated in a forum then maybe i'll refrain from commenting in the future?
no, you're missing my point... I was legitimately just curious. you can certainly say whatever you like, it just struck me as an odd thing to get so passionate about. FYI, I could not care less about the cable makers being evil or not - I am a man of science (physics degree) so i get all kinds of excited when I see a graph or spectrum, and I am interested for no reason other than knowing how these cables truly behave. Geeky, I know, but what can I do? 
i wasn't 'passionate' about it, I was just working my angle really lol I am very much a man of science myself (degrees in computer science and audio engineering)...but I also like to keep it real and always remind myself that technology, much like us, evolves and changes that's all.
that's all.
nah, no need to go back to lurking...but tb is a place where pseudo science isn't very well tolerated and good science is respected, as you insinuate in your third paragraph
i cant believe how much extra money i have spent on monster fender platinum mogami golds.
could some of them be worth a little more because of there shielding methods and gold ends??
I gotta be honest, as a physicist you had me all hiked up lol I do think if there is any scientific field which brings a sense of the progression of ideas it's physics. But enough of that, I'll just go over here and simmer down for a while in bed 
I for one was puzzled at first about the bottom and top-end rolloff in the first graph. Now that I think about it, that looks to me like it's not a property of the cables, but rather highpass/lowpass filters in the converters used for the test. Are you going in/out at 44.1khz?
I propose a control sample where you test the response of the system without a cable...
j/k
I propose a control sample where you test the response of the system without a cable...
j/k
oh sure!i cant believe how much extra money i have spent on monster fender platinum mogami golds.
