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Completely new to setting up a PA.

RyanHutchison9

RyanHutchison9

Mar 25, 2014
75
20
#1
I have very little experience with mixers and had a very newbie question as I couldn't find an answer while searching online.

Our drummer has around 12 mics, the singer and guitarist have a vocal mic (+ me in the future possibly) and the bass/guitars will also run DI. We could possibly get away with a mixer that has 16 XLR inputs but is that the only option we have of plugging in the microphones? As I said very newbie question...

We're looking at getting the P16-M personal mixers for the group and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about it...

Once again sorry for the incredibly newbie thread.
 
#6
Unless your drummer is Neil Peart, he has way too many mics.

A standard size kit is normally 5-6 pieces: kick, snare, a couple of toms. Cymbals are usually: hihat, ride, crash (x2), and maybe a splash.
It sounds like your drummer wants to mic every drum, and cymbal, separately. Unless he has a drum tech, or at a minimum a professional sound tech, he's gonna find that mic'ing 12 pieces, and sound checking every one, is a pain the @$$. And a pain for the rest of the band, too.
 
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#7
buldog5151bass said:
I think your drummer is the newbie. If he really wants to haul all that around, he won't mind hauling around a sub mixer. What size venues are you playing?
Click to expand...

We're just starting out so gigs will be small for a while. As I said I'm new when it comes to live sound besides my own gear so I have very little knowledge on what to do. :facepalm: The drummer is pretty set on getting an X32, all I really want is a mixer that can handle the band and output to the P16M for monitoring. :thumbsdown:
 
#8
Winfred said:
Unless your drummer is Neil Peart, he has way too many mics.

A standard size kit is normally 5-6 pieces: kick, snare, a couple of toms. Cymbals are usually: hihat, ride, crash (x2), and maybe a splash.
It sounds like your drummer wants to mic every drum, and cymbal, separately. Unless he has a drum tech, or at a minimum a professional sound tech, he's gonna find that mic'ing 12 pieces, and sound checking every one, is a pain the @$$. And a pain for the rest of the band, too.
Click to expand...

Excellent point, he's a fantastic drummer with alot of expensive equipment but hopefully he will see reason.
 
#10
Tell your drummer no no no, unless he intends to buy AND haul it. I assume you are playing bars and such. Probably a bass drum and overhead would do for a while.

My suggestion, since he probably won't listen to reason. Go to the venue you plan to play (not the ones you hope to play "some day"), and see what they are using. I bet many are using an 8-12channel powered mixer (for the entire band).
 
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#12
Winfred said:
If you're playing "small gigs", he only needs to mic the kick drum. And if it's a really small place, he doesn't even need to mic that.
Click to expand...

Do you think it's still worth getting a monitoring system (Such as the P16I and M) setup? I've tried playing with musicians plugs and I can hardly hear myself which can put me off, the gigs will definitely be small initially.
 
#13
I think you are going for overkill. How big is the band, how much are you going to be making at gigs, what is your budget, etc?

Take basic small venue band, making under a grand per gig. I would get a powered mixer, with enough channels for all vocals, for each amp, and 2-3 for drums (again, he wants more, let him get his own mixer). Fifteen inch for your mains. One or two twelve inch wedge monitors, assuming two vocalists. For your drummer, a mini "hot spot" monitor. That is more than enough to start, and get you through growth. You likely won't be micing amps for a while.

Remember, at 2am you are going to be breaking down. Don't buy more than you need. Again, see what other bands playing the same places are using.
 
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#14
RyanHutchison9 said:
Do you think it's still worth getting a monitoring system (Such as the P16I and M) setup? I've tried playing with musicians plugs and I can hardly hear myself which can put me off, the gigs will definitely be small initially.
Click to expand...

See Bulldog5151's post: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/completely-new-to-setting-up-a-pa.1080889/#post-15968068

That's more than enough gear for small places. I'm sure your drummer has nice gear, and he wants to be heard, but I think he's greatly misunderstanding how small gigs work.
 
#15
Yeah 12 drum mics is overkill. For small gigs we just mic the kick and use 2 overheads. If you are getting the x32 then you would have the option to run 16 monitor mixes. No need for p16m. I also question the need for the x32. Unless the drummer plans on mixing other bands that is way more board than you need.
 
#16
All of our gigs would be considered small. Usually 50-150 people, very largest..MAYBE 200, and I've never used more than 4 mics on the drums. 1 kick, one catching snare/hat, 1 one over the center catching toms/crashes, and one on the right catching floortom/ride. You can get a pretty well balanced, quality sound that way provided his drums are all well tuned and relatively even in volume with each other and he has quality cymbals. Small indoor bar gigs I ran 3, kick, snare and one overhead.

Should be able to do what you need to do with a 12 channel mixer. My channel tape read like this:

1-4. Vox
5. Acoustic gtr
6. Electric gtr.
7. Bass
8. Kick
9. Snare/hat
10. Overhead 1
11. Overhead 2.

That's enough for quality sound and plenty to keep up with mixing yourself while playing. I wouldn't want to add any more on the drums. Too much hassle, too much crap to setup and adjust, for far too little improvement, If any at all.
 
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#17
So you're thinking an X-32 plus P16s, fine - it's what we use and nothing wrong with it - BUT - I have to agree that for many venues, your biggest issue is not making the kit louder, it's the reverse! Our band is a Beach Boy tribute - so it's surf music and rock and roll, but nothing heavy. In the smaller venues, 500 capacity - then very often we will have kick, snare and just one overhead, and the overhead does the most work - the kick and snare already being pretty loud. Although the snare is never perked up in the mix, we use it for Phil Spectoresque drums on a couple of songs - so it needs doing, but the drums are plenty loud enough. When we do the 500-1000 sizes, then the kick and snare will be louder in the mix, but it's only when we do 1000 seater + venues and arenas that every drum is miked - and even then, it only goes to kick, snare, hats, O/H, Tom 1,Tom 2, Tom 3 = 7 mics. I've never needed to double mic a snare, or give each cymbal it's own mic. I also am happy DI'ing the bass as it has no effects at all, but always mic the guitar can because he uses quite a few in amp effects as well as the floor board. To be honest, we often don't even bother the keys being in stereo with the smaller venues, only spreading them L/R in the bigger places - and even then, only gently.
 
#18
Regardless of whether or not you're using too many mics/channels right now, you're always going to want/need more channels sometime in the not-too-far future. In other words, if you're already filling up a mixer, or even within 3-4 channels of being full, you need more. There's always something else to plug in. Effects returns, iPod, Laptop, extra instruments, fill-in or backup singers, spare channels in case something dies - it all ads up in a hurry. If you can't pare down the inputs list, I think you're looking at a 24-channel mixer at the very least.
 
#19
RyanHutchison9 said:
I have very little experience with mixers and had a very newbie question as I couldn't find an answer while searching online.

Our drummer has around 12 mics, the singer and guitarist have a vocal mic (+ me in the future possibly) and the bass/guitars will also run DI. We could possibly get away with a mixer that has 16 XLR inputs but is that the only option we have of plugging in the microphones? As I said very newbie question...

We're looking at getting the P16-M personal mixers for the group and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about it...

Once again sorry for the incredibly newbie thread.
Click to expand...

A 16 channel mixer should suffice. The described array of mics is undesirable, unrealistic, and unsustainable. Your vocal mics will undoubtedly pick up more backline content than you realize. The drummer needs a kick drum mic and maybe one overhead. If he chooses to run a sub-mixer, so be it but be forewarned: he'll probably waste more time dickin' around with it during the gig which is a glaring time waster...been there. Let's say you have a 5 member band and each needs two mics / channels...one for vox, one for instrument, drummer gets two. That's 11 mic channels which leaves you 5 extra for FX, setting monitor levels, etc.

Riis
 
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#20
Zoober hit the nail on the head: in small places, plenty of toms, snare, and cymbals are going to bleed through the vocal mics. You'll be fighting to pull that stuff down, not get it louder. The kick needs to be mic'ed if the bass is going DI, in my opinion.
 

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