So, you saying I shouldn't use rounds, I should cut off my hands, or what?
Only if that works for you.
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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...
- Thread starter Sundogue
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Only if that works for you.
+1 to everything Sundogue said, especially
I've never understood the need to say IMO, IMHO, etc. You're the one typing, so OF COURSE it's your opinion.
I've never understood the need to say IMO, IMHO, etc. You're the one typing, so OF COURSE it's your opinion.
Okay, you guys pretty much convinced me to try out flats.
I play in an 8 man band including 2 guitarists a keyboard and a sax and find my J somewhat lacking in the low's and low mid punch. We play mixed genre's from stonerrock (without the sax) to funk/disco.
Reading the OP and some other posts I realized I've been boosting mid's to hear myself better but with 2 guitars and a lot more going on in that range, that might not be the smartest thing to do as it becomes way too sloppy in there when not playing tight.
So what set could you recommend to give me this low end and leave the upper mids/highs to the guitars but will still give me presence and definition for some of the funky bits i do?
I heard chromes are great for J's, but what brand?
Thanks,
I play in an 8 man band including 2 guitarists a keyboard and a sax and find my J somewhat lacking in the low's and low mid punch. We play mixed genre's from stonerrock (without the sax) to funk/disco.
Reading the OP and some other posts I realized I've been boosting mid's to hear myself better but with 2 guitars and a lot more going on in that range, that might not be the smartest thing to do as it becomes way too sloppy in there when not playing tight.
So what set could you recommend to give me this low end and leave the upper mids/highs to the guitars but will still give me presence and definition for some of the funky bits i do?
I heard chromes are great for J's, but what brand?
Thanks,
I believe chromes refers specifically to D'Addario Chromes.
http://store.daddario.com/category/145851/Chromes_Flat_Wound
I had a rehearsal last night with my band for two upcoming gigs with a lot of new material.
As some of you know I fell off the wagon and put rounds on when I was playing alone for quite some time. At my previous rehearsal I used new SS rounds and it sucked no matter how I EQ'd them.
Last night's rehearsal I had my Chromes back on. Perfect sound again. My bass was just solid, distinct and punchy and everyone could hear every note I played, even at a lower volume than I had to use with the rounds. The Chromes even sound aggressive if I dig in with them. There isn't anything dull, muddy or laid-back with them at all, unless that's what you want to get from them.
My point is that those who might want to try out flats, please do yourself a favor and don't judge them solely on playing alone. Give yourself some time with them, let them break in and settle and play them with your band, both at a rehearsal and at a few gigs before giving up on them.
You may also find, like I have, that in using flats you can cut your lows (giving your amp some breathing space and not over saturating the stage with lows), and not have to boost your mids as much to be heard (which alleviates that annoying "honking" sound required to "cut through" in some cases). My cabs are more mid-voiced and I play more now with a pick, so take your playing style and rig into consideration.
I'm curious how most flat players EQ. Of course it will vary depending on the room and how your cabs/amp are voiced, but generally how does everyone else EQ their lows, lo-mids, mids and upper mids? I cut my lows and upper mids, and everything else is set flat. Unless I play with my fingers then I boost the upper mids. Thankfully I use a Superfly with a digital interface and can save EQ settings as patches. I have patches for every room we play with regularity, for both pick and fingers. With rounds (using the same bass and rig) I've always had to boost lows and mids to hear it the way I want it...and yet it still sounded thinner by comparison.
Disclaimer: Read post # 817
As some of you know I fell off the wagon and put rounds on when I was playing alone for quite some time. At my previous rehearsal I used new SS rounds and it sucked no matter how I EQ'd them.
Last night's rehearsal I had my Chromes back on. Perfect sound again. My bass was just solid, distinct and punchy and everyone could hear every note I played, even at a lower volume than I had to use with the rounds. The Chromes even sound aggressive if I dig in with them. There isn't anything dull, muddy or laid-back with them at all, unless that's what you want to get from them.
My point is that those who might want to try out flats, please do yourself a favor and don't judge them solely on playing alone. Give yourself some time with them, let them break in and settle and play them with your band, both at a rehearsal and at a few gigs before giving up on them.
You may also find, like I have, that in using flats you can cut your lows (giving your amp some breathing space and not over saturating the stage with lows), and not have to boost your mids as much to be heard (which alleviates that annoying "honking" sound required to "cut through" in some cases). My cabs are more mid-voiced and I play more now with a pick, so take your playing style and rig into consideration.
I'm curious how most flat players EQ. Of course it will vary depending on the room and how your cabs/amp are voiced, but generally how does everyone else EQ their lows, lo-mids, mids and upper mids? I cut my lows and upper mids, and everything else is set flat. Unless I play with my fingers then I boost the upper mids. Thankfully I use a Superfly with a digital interface and can save EQ settings as patches. I have patches for every room we play with regularity, for both pick and fingers. With rounds (using the same bass and rig) I've always had to boost lows and mids to hear it the way I want it...and yet it still sounded thinner by comparison.
Disclaimer: Read post # 817
To put in context ... Fender Std Am Jazz (all controls set a 2 o'clock), Rotosound Jazz77 strings (45-105), Genz Benz GBE 600, with 2X10 and 1X15 cabs. Fingers.
I have found my sweet spot to be with the amp's "low mid" at 2 o'clock and the "mid" at 10 o'clock and everything else flat. Only change I ever make to that is to move all settings on the amp to flat, and I typically don't touch the controls on the bass.
With my Fender P, I keep the amp settings the same, with the bass at about 75% volume and the treble rolled off by about 25%.
May be subject to change as I've just ordered Fender flats (45-95) ... I was getting inconsistent sets with the Jazz77s, didn't like Chromes personally, and recently tried switching to rounds (Fender 7150 Pure Nickels for the warmest round tone I could find) ... I am DEFINITELY a flats player though, so I hope the Fender flats deliver. I don't expect to be boosting the lower mids on those based on how others in TB have described them.
I found with the rounds, I kept the amp settings the same, but rolled the treble back by about 50% on the bass which seemed to get me back into the territory I'm most happy with ... just not the same though.
Flats have pretty much define my style ... often I slide up into notes so, for example, if I'm going up from B (second fret on the A string) to E, I'll slide up to the 7th fret instead of just simply dropping down to the D string (I think I have that right!). I have to adjust my whole way of playing with rounds to avoid the scratchy finger noise.
Yes.
EDIT: If you do buy Chromes, they come very dirty compared to the LaBella's. Make sure you clean them off before you install them.
They must have cleaned and polished mine very well before packaging them, 'cause mine were like shiny new right out of the package. Maybe it's a hit or miss thing with polishing strings, though I can't imagine any string manufacturers would ship out strings that require the customer to clean them first before using.
Sometimes Chromes still have the black polish used for final buffing left on them, no biggie, but does need cleaning off.
It's a Fender Mexican P with an American Jazz Neck and DiMarzio pickups. If you like the precision punch, want more bite and attack definition, but want a deeper and wider sound than a Jazz in the bridge offers, I highly recommend the mod. My bass is very thumpy and woody. Not only does it sound excellent, but it sounds original too. I'll post a recording today that I made with the double P and the chromes.
I was warned when I bought my first set about this. I have probably bought 5 sets of Chromes and all of them needed serious cleaning. I think you where lucky.
Thanks for the info guys. I'll have to remember that on my next string order 40 years from now.
I remember when I first switched to flats (about 5 years ago) I thought how nice it was to stop obsessing over tone tweeking and instead I could direct my energy and concentration on other things (locking in, hearing the whole band, meaning of life..haha).
What a luxury it is to just always be right there in (under?) the mix.
^^^^ Okay Sundogue's point here is a gold mine ^^^^
It comes up every now and then that my rehearsal amp is a humble 80 watt Crate combo. Granted, our rehearsal room is small (basement), and our playing not too loud, but with that said I do NOT have that amp cranked to 11.
That amp has a graphic eq, and I am able to cut most everything below 100 hz *way* down, a little boost in the low mids, and run everything else flat. On my bass I keep my volume and tone both around 7 from years of habit (to give a little "turn up room" if needed). Like Sundogue said, it lets you get heard without having to crank up lows, or in my case, get by just fine with a very "small" amp by todays standards because I can run a smaller amp using a more efficient eq.
If anyone wants to know if that works (and please don't flame my hack skills, it won't do anyone any good b/c I won't stop playing regardless) just check out my myspace link, first song - "Improve jam, warts and all..." Save yourself some pain and skip ahead to around the 5:00 minute mark and just listen for a few seconds, you'll get the idea.
That's my 80 watt Crate amp, a guitarist with a Peavey Classic 30, a harp player through an old Silvertone tube amp, and two drummers (yes two! had a guest sitting in).
Recorded with an MXL condenser mic in the center of the room, through an Audio Buddy straight into my laptop.
Peace.
So we made some progress on a mix today but it's definitely not quite there yet. It's a really simple song but it's one that I used the double P with chromes on. I'm using a Sansamp RBI, DBX 166A, and Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive for a touch of subtle overdrive (you can really barely notice, the double P is really that growly). I could deal with a little less bass (yes from the bassist!), a little more rhythm guitar, and the drums definitely need some work. Too much high end from the crashes in the chorus, not enough kick highs, not enough snare midrange.
Regardless, this is a pretty good representation of what the double P with DiMarzio pickups sounds like with typical cutting of lows and highs and some slight mid boosting. Nothing is boosted more than about 1db. The neck is full on, bridge @ 75%, tone wide open.
I used an Electro Harmonix Nano Small Stone for the intro, and a Boss CE-5 for that chorused note at the end of the chorus and for the bridge.
https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MnFoQndPZ2orV3dLSkE9PQ
Regardless, this is a pretty good representation of what the double P with DiMarzio pickups sounds like with typical cutting of lows and highs and some slight mid boosting. Nothing is boosted more than about 1db. The neck is full on, bridge @ 75%, tone wide open.
I used an Electro Harmonix Nano Small Stone for the intro, and a Boss CE-5 for that chorused note at the end of the chorus and for the bridge.
https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MnFoQndPZ2orV3dLSkE9PQ
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