Confused about EQing

[greenmachine69]

Hey guys. I’m hoping this isn’t a dumb question but I really need help figuring out some EQ issues I’ve been having.
A lot of the bass parts I play in my band are meant to stick out. I obviously don’t want to be the center of attention tone-wise though. The last gig we had, I messed around with the knobs on my amp during soundcheck since I couldn’t hear myself at all in the room outside of feeling the lowest frequencies. But when we performed together, I kept fiddling with the knobs again because my tone sounded super farty and unpleasant. Since then, I haven’t figured out how to fix my tone and I’ve gotta figure it out soon because we’re recording some demos this week.
Of course everything is subjective. I just need some advice from those more experienced than me about this. We play rock and my favorite tone when I’ve figured it out before is a thumpy, resonant, deep tone that sticks out among the mix but not to the point of being unpleasant. I don’t know if that’s too much to ask for, but I’ve heard it done before.
Here’s my gear for reference:
-Spector Performer 4 PJ
-Boss LMB-3
-EHX Bass Soul Food
-EHX Battalion for EQ/distortion
-GK MB500 head
-Genz-Benz Neox 212T cab
Do I just need to find the right mix of frequencies? Or is it a matter of messing with the horn control knob on the back of my cab? Idk man, it thank you for your help

 

[gtirard]

Hey guys. I’m hoping this isn’t a dumb question but I really need help figuring out some EQ issues I’ve been having.
A lot of the bass parts I play in my band are meant to stick out. I obviously don’t want to be the center of attention tone-wise though. The last gig we had, I messed around with the knobs on my amp during soundcheck since I couldn’t hear myself at all in the room outside of feeling the lowest frequencies. But when we performed together, I kept fiddling with the knobs again because my tone sounded super farty and unpleasant. Since then, I haven’t figured out how to fix my tone and I’ve gotta figure it out soon because we’re recording some demos this week.
Of course everything is subjective. I just need some advice from those more experienced than me about this. We play rock and my favorite tone when I’ve figured it out before is a thumpy, resonant, deep tone that sticks out among the mix but not to the point of being unpleasant. I don’t know if that’s too much to ask for, but I’ve heard it done before.
Here’s my gear for reference:
-Spector Performer 4 PJ
-Boss LMB-3
-EHX Bass Soul Food
-EHX Battalion for EQ/distortion
-GK MB500 head
-Genz-Benz Neox 212T cab
Do I just need to find the right mix of frequencies? Or is it a matter of messing with the horn control knob on the back of my cab? Idk man, it thank you for your help

There's no dumb question!

It's a very common problem. Your tone when playing solo and in the band mix are completely different things, so it's recommended to always do all EQing in the context of the band mix.

It's often more pleasant to scoop the mids a lot when playing solo, because you want to feel deep lows. But if you want to hear yourself in the band mix it's the opposite: mid frequencies is vital to really hear what you are playing.

• Start from the scratch, with all EQ knobs at noon.
• Don't play solo to judge your sound, wait until you play with the band.
• Avoid scooping the mids (or be very subtle)

 

[jTrolt]

^^+1

Further,

Consider turning off, bypassing or removing the pedals until you get this down. Soul feeders and distortion generators only generate more mysterious overtones, undertones and confusion, for now.

I use a 112Neo with tweeter array, very similar to your setup. For live sound, I've found ~250Hz is the range of that punchy body your looking for in your tone. Add some 2.5k for some snappy, bright attack. If it's "farty", dial back the low frequency knob, allowing that punchy round 250Hz range to really stand out. 30-50hz thunder is nice, and those Neo's are really good at it, but we're primarily expected to roll out a smooth, round groove, not a home theater experience.

Play within that general range, reduce bass frequencies below 100Hz, and I think you'll find much more clarity and tightness, especially on stage in a live mix. The PA should be reproducing the lowest thundering frequencies. I know, it's hard to let go, but at least try a couple of these methods and see if it doesn't get you at least a little closer to bass nirvana.

Good luck with your recording!

 

[greenmachine69]

Great feedback thank you guys. Forgot to mention that I use most of my pedals on an as-needed basis. My only always-on pedal is my LMB-3, but that alone might be giving me some confusion too.

 

[Ritter667]

Mids are your friend, don't scoop them!

Low mids gives your tone body and punch, upper mids gives definition, articulation and snap.

 

[jTrolt]

My only always-on pedal is my LMB-3

I just looked that up, and I like the concept. I will say, I've had sound engineers scold me on compression, and learned you need to operate more like a limiter. In general, use it very lightly in a live setting. Also realize, most FOH engineers will have compression on the bass channel as well.

Medium threshold level with a very low ratio is what I run. I'd start at straight up on that threshold dial and just one notch off zero to start with the ratio. This means only the brightest and hardest hits get leveled, and just a little bit. You need a bit of edge to stay "alive" in a live setting, and a wider dynamic range is something to cherish.

That beautiful, squashed studio smoothness will kill you live. Maybe pull back on the enhancement for now, as again, it's more under/over tones that can quickly muddle your punch. Or, dial up more? If it's "enhanced for bass guitar", who knows- it may be dialing up that ~250 range on it's own, and therein lies the trouble- you don't really know, so maybe just skip it for now.

Best approach here is to get the most awesome tone you can with ZERO pedal assistance.

Pedals should be looked upon as an enhancement of great tone rather than a generator of great tone.

I know, this sentiment runs contrary to the marketing, but is really the truth of the matter, in practice.

 

[red_rhino]

-GK MB500 head

That’s a good amp head with powerful EQ options. It should be able to give you what you want. Don’t be shy about experimenting with GIVE circuit feature. It can be a bit tricky to dial in, but you can get a nice grind out of it and some extreme (probably unusable) settings as well.

Be careful if you’re using the Contour control. On its own, this cuts mids and boosts bass and treble. If you combine that with further cuts to your HI/LO mid EQs, you can really gut the mids too much. IME with the GK MB800, I set the contour at roughly between 9-10 o’clock.

Do you know for sure that you’ll be using your amps when recording? Often the bass goes direct, or signal is taken from the amp’s DI, usually with the DI set to pre-EQ so that the engineer can adjust your tone in isolation. (Assuming you’re recording in a real studio environment and not just hanging some mics in your rehearsal space.). In other words, the problem you’re trying to solve may not be a factor when it comes to recording. One less thing to stress about.

 

[BassChap]

• Start from the scratch, with all EQ knobs at noon.

This. Whenever I don't like my sound while playing with a band, I switch off all effects and set the EQ to neutral. That solves the problem most of the times.

 

[pbass2]

Great feedback thank you guys. Forgot to mention that I use most of my pedals on an as-needed basis. My only always-on pedal is my LMB-3, but that alone might be giving me some confusion too.

Very likely. Try playing without it. Once you get your tone dialed better, then see if it's something you want in your signal path.
As for your upcoming recording, I'd strongly suggest absolutely NOT using that thing when tracking. If the engineer or producer likes to track with a little comp on that's quite normal but it should be with a very light touch (and with something more studio-quality) as you want to wait until the mix stage to commit to any heavy lifting, compression-wise(and especially any kind of "enhancer), whether it's done with outboard hardware or plug-ins.
Just as your bedroom tone is different from your onstage with an amp tone, the studio needs to be approached as its own animal too. You can't go wrong with the traditional approach of a solid clean DI signal that can be molded in the mix (even if you also track a separate amp track as well).

 

[monsterthompson]

Good advice so far.

Keep in mind that drive/distortion is a double edged sword. It will add overtones and upper end presence which can help define the bass and make it more audible. But clipping the signal is a form of compression, so heavy distortion will limit playing dynamics and can make it harder to be heard in a band mix when you want to stand out (without a volume boost or re-EQ).

You also might need to talk to the band about arrangements and their tone settings. If the arrangement has guitars or keys overlapping the bass, you’re going to struggle to stand out. Moving those parts to simpler voicing or different octaves might be worth exploring. If you have guitars with lots of distortion, you may need to ask them to change the gain and/or EQ settings so you aren’t occupying the same spectrum.

These aren’t sure fire remedies but might provide some food for thought.

 

[gillento]

Spector Performer vs "thumpy, resonant, deep tone "

I have never played the Performer model, but my experience with Spector is limited to the Euro LX Series and those sounded very bright and/or scooped to me. I'd go easy on the active low end and hi end boosts in the first place

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Lotta great advice already, but I'll also toss in that recording in a studio, the Engineer will likely want you to go direct in. At least to get one clean track, and maybe mix in your typical signal chain to another channel if they're super nice

Like everyone has said, you have perfectly capable gear. I love the GK MB500 head and would also add the following advice:
- Start with the Contour ALL the way off (fully counterclockwise, this means no mid scoop is applied).
- Leave the G.I.V.E. circuit off for now
- Start with all your EQ at noon, this isn't necessarily "flat" (there is some pre-baked shaping in there already) but is a good visual starting point
- Turn up the Gain control until it starts to clip only when you are playing your hardest, then back down on the Gain knob some
- Adjust the Master to a comparable volume level to when the band plays.
- Start tweaking the EQ to taste. Keep in mind the EQ on the GK head is cut AND boost, so you can take away or add those frequencies (it's a flexible EQ). A little goes a long way, but try cutting frequencies instead of boosting to compensate.
- Start playing with the band and see how it sounds
- Need to cut in the mix better? Start boosting your Low Mids for beef and the Hi Mids for cut and articulation. This will likely sound poopy when solo'd, but will sound great in the band mix


tl;dr - Boost mids, don't cut them

 

[coyote1]

My first question: how is your amp-speaker configuration? If the 2x12 is on the ground, you will not hear it well enough. Make sure it’s on a stand or stool or chair or something and then set it vertically, so you can get the top speaker up around chest level or higher.

The bottom won’t be as awesome because you’ll lose the floor coupling, but you’ll be able to hear yourself.

 

[Topkat13]

I didn't read your entire post. But there is no such thing as a dumb question.

 

[Pings Bass]

GK amps have a baked-in scoop, so setting eq at noon is not flat, just FYI. For me that means getting over my bias toward keeping EQ knobs close to straight up.

 

[HolmeBass]

In general there is a negative tendency to:

- boost bass, from 40 Hz up through 120 Hz

- then back off volume so that the low end slots well in the mix

The problem is further up, say past the 7th fret E on the A string, you are too quiet.

Start out with all EQ flat - on bass and pedals and amp. Disengaging the pedals is a good idea except if you have an “always on” then keep it on.

Use gain and volume with the band to try and get to a decent spot in the mix. Only then start messing with the EQ.

Use a “balanced” EQ strategy where you try to cut some places a little, and boost others a little. Try not to use drastic EQing.

 

[billiard]

Ditch the pedals, run the amp flat, run your bass wide open and dial back highs lows etc, turn up master volume.

 

[Chadwick Salls]

Boost the mids! On the GK, try Treble between 11 o'clock and noon, Low Mids around 2 o'clock, and Hi Mids and Bass at noon. If you are going direct, you can ask the engineer to boost around 500-700hz

 

[J Wilson]

Several things come to mind:

Start off with your bass, a cable, and the amp/cabinet. Everything on the bass and the amp set to flat, stay away from the Contour and Drive controls for now.

Carefully tweak the tone until it sounds right to you, then add the pedals one at a time. If the tone goes South when you add this or that pedal, now you know where the problem is.

And note that playing live through a PA and recording are two entirely different animals, and often a live setting may not be best in a recording setting.

Also, IF you're playing through Pro Sound Reinforcement with a good mixing engineer, the first thing he's going to tell you is to ditch your compressor in his signal chain (unless you are taking a DI sent pre-pedal board). Recording, same thing.

BTW, are you using a Direct Box of any kind live? These often take the signal right off your bass and leave your effects and amp out of the equation. This may be a cure as well.

Generally, on an amp like the GK with lows, high and low mids, and highs, typically these will have a center frequency around 100-200hz for bass, 200-400hz for the low mids, 400-800hz for the high mids, and above 800 hz (probably around 1khz) for the highs. It may vary from this exactly to what Mr. Gallien spec'd, but those numbers should be close.

Depending on the room, and your EQ and effects getting way past done, it's all too easy to wind up with an unfocused rumble, it's happened to all of us. All you can do is carefully work up to what sounds right (often in tandem with the FOH guy) in that room, even if it doesn't quite sound 100% to you: This is just the way bass is, you are often at the mercy of the room.

 

[coyote1]

I didn't read your entire post. But there is no such thing as a dumb question.

Really?