Btw…. I have been married for 35 years to a Colombian beauty I met while gigging on the cruise ship in 1985. Best thing that ever happened to me.
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Cruise ship gigging
- Thread starter Tom Read
- Start date
I've done many cruise ship contracts... and for sure this is absolutely not the norm! (Unless you are a fly-on-fly-off guest entertainer) :-D Only once did I get a guest cabin and that was only temporary. Crew cabins are very functional and decent, but shared and small.
Enjoy the Covid-pandemic special living situation! Likely cruising with half-guest capacity?
Some stuff we get to see in advance, but some us encountered live on stage for the first time. So the sight-reading needs to be up to scratch.
No, it’s not reduced capacity. It’s a spacious luxury boutique ship, and we’ve got passenger status. I shall enjoy it while it lasts!
No, it’s not reduced capacity. It’s a spacious luxury boutique ship, and we’ve got passenger status. I shall enjoy it while it lasts!
Yeah and most of those people haven’t worked in a cruise ship show band and heard those “non-creative” impeccable sight readers improvise circles around them, or hear something once and play it perfect live on stage.
It’s all true. All of it. I remember going on a cruise as a teen with my family and our Portuguese dinner waiter winked and told me something like, “the crew bar party was amazing last night. You wish you were there.” I could see in his eyes the truth he spoke. I later worked on many ships over the period of 10 years…. It’s all true.
Seriously, the guys I played with were all insanely talented, I was hands-down the worst one there. All our production shows were 100% sightreading, but we also did jazz sets around dinnertime and live band-backed karaoke, and they improvised in every single genre with ease. Phenomenal talent on cruise ships from all over the world (the last band I was in was American drummer, Belarusian bassist, Uruguayan keyboardist, Venezuelan guitarist, and Canadian sax player).
Yup! That’s my experience. However, I’ve also played with two of the worst musicians I’ve ever played with who snuck through the cruise ship auditioning cracks, but they were quickly sent home and replaced.
It's worth noting that in real life, and on here, you see the opposite side of this as well. - the thought that it's impossible to play music or understand music or music theory at all if you can't read western notation. Both extremes are bad. Reading music is a useful skill in many contexts, but it's not a strictly necessary skill in many others. Its utility diminishes a lot if you have a good ear and a good musical memory. (There do indeed exist people who do not understand music and do not have the auditory skills to hear and comprehend music who nonetheless can perform written music. It is common.)
Music is a language and the real importance is being able to communicate in that language. Reading is one tool of many to get there. There's definitely a happy medium between the zealots at the extremities.
Two things:
1. Obviously there are some people who can make sense out of music and theory without knowing how to read. I believe the correct term for them is "flukes." The vast majority give up or learn a few chords, then give up.
2. Yes, some people cannot hear music but can perform written music. And without the ability to read, they wouldn't be able to indulge in their passion for music at all.
3. The people I work with who can read can do it all. They can do whatever you throw at them, and best of all, they can communicate with others who can do it rather than relying on nonsense like "Play more green" or "Play less brown" or some such nonsense.
I think there are a lot more people who fit the first category than you might think. (You see this a lot in places where people grow up with music - either in the house or in an auxiliary location, like a church.)
But in general, I agree with what you're saying. This isn't the first time this has been discussed on Talkbass, as you well know. (Example 1, Example 2. Talkbass is definitely cyclical.
) In regards to #3, I've always thought the best way to communicate is using the language itself - playing and listening. You might enjoy this video. (Edit: At a certain point, they start to communicate ideas using the keyboards and their ears. This is the ideal, but it does require the members to be able to speak and understand in this manner.)Won't hijack the thread any longer.
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Ya, that was before my time. I started working with him in 98 and stopped in 2018. But they always used the cruise ship band when RC hired them.
In my day we could all read and we were hardcore boppers finding a way to make a living.
I'd bet money the percentage of people who persevere and thrive without learning how to read music vs the ones who get frustrated and quit because they can't make sense out of it is less than 10%, and I'd guess somewhere around the 5% mark if there's an over/under on it. But since there doesn't seem to be any studies on it, these are guesses. Educated guesses, but still...I'll put in that disclaimer.
I don't think it's a hijack whatsoever. I will say, however, not being able to read rules you out of many gigs that pay much better than doing 4 sets at a local classic rock club. I would never have been able to do all those oldies gigs in arenas and large theaters I used to do, nor would I be able to sub for this wedding band here that pays great. And unless you have a specialty act, theme parks and cruise ships won't hire you unless you can read.But in general, I agree with what you're saying. This isn't the first time this has been discussed on Talkbass, as you well know. (Example 1, Example 2. Talkbass is definitely cyclical.
Won't hijack the thread any longer.
Perhaps, but music is a language. Depending on the context and your environment, you acquire language without acquiring strict literacy. It's true that as people continue into the upper echelons, they generally pick up some type of reading skill, but that doesn't necessarily imply sight reading at tempo. (Admittedly, it does also mean that the musician may be limited to genres and styles they're familiar with. This is a bad thing in a blues or country context, but can be really good if you grew up with gospel or neo-soul, for instance, with its jazz-based chord progressions and virtuosic embellishments.) Maybe you're right about the numbers. Or maybe not, I wouldn't know. I do think it also depends on the instrument and musical discipline, and it definitely depends heavily upon starting at a very very early age.
Agreed that reading is definitely where the money's at. And of course, it's worth noting a distinction between reading in general and sight-reading something cold at tempo. Some people (like me) can read something (decipher, in my case) to get the musical idea in their head, then rely more on memory than reading for reproduction, but wouldn't be able to do a cold reading at tempo. I definitely agree that sight reading is a professional skill that lends itself well to professional performance and music reproduction, which is usually where the money is.
Regardless of all of this, if I do see myself doing a cruise ship gig in 15 years or so just for the hell of it, I'll definitely be working on sight-reading skills.
I think you're kidding, but just in case you're not, The Netherlands and Seattle (and all of Washington State) have something in common.I don't know what you mean.
Undoubtedly, both of those extremes are not in line with what I have experienced or observed.
I don't want to get too far afield, but it seems to me that those who have a great deal of naturally developed ability are typically respectful of the process. In talking with musicians of this type, it is not unusual to hear them express some form of regret that they don't read, even though they technically don't need to.
Those who would talk smack about reading generally seem to lack the high levels of naturally developed ability you are referring to. Or they have a great deal of ability but in a narrowly defined area.
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Heck, I wish I had the natural ability to understand how music was made before I learned how to read music at age 11. I played and understood the role of drums and knew a few chords on guitar, that was about it. Once I learned to read and the theory behind everything (helped immensely by learning how to play the piano, though I suck at it
), that's when my natural abilities with music started to kick in and it all made sense.
Yep, similar to my trajectory: band kid on the tuba at 12, playing bass guitar by ear the next year, drums and double bass in high school, piano, theory, composition and the rest at university, where everything finally gelled.Heck, I wish I had the natural ability to understand how music was made before I learned how to read music at age 11. I played and understood the role of drums and knew a few chords on guitar, that was about it. Once I learned to read and the theory behind everything (helped immensely by learning how to play the piano, though I suck at it
Prior to university, I had a pretty decent ear and was able to able to learn and play the music I was into at the time, but I was also quite limited in my ability to interact quickly and accurately in diverse professional settings. Playing in the university symphony improved my reading and learning to understand harmony made a huge difference in that respect.
But back to cruising...in my case, I actually didn't do a great deal of reading on the ship. The bulk of our trio repertoire was standards, with arrangements done largely on the fly. New material would be worked out using recordings or charts, which would be dispensed with as quickly as possible. The orchestra and party band had their own bassists.
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