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dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)

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#221
I got a sense of deja vu when typing my last post, so I dug back into the thread and sure enough, back in August I posted:

Febs said:
Given the fact that you had a rig that by your own admission was overkill for a small room, he undoubtedly did blend "your sound" with the DI. It is entirely possible that he knew that your rig would carry the room anyway and that it would not be necessary to mic your cabinet to get the sound of the cabinet to the house. For all you know, he may have had the DI channel muted the entire show.
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Ah, well, at least I'm consistent.
 
#223
hmmm...i seem to have gotten this thread confused with "i hate sound guys." sorry.

but to those of you who are soundguys, doesn't this bother you that you have this image problem? doesn't it bother you that so many of you try to dictate to bands so much that many musicians hate you? doesn't it bother you that a lot of bands think of you as the enemy because you treat them so crappy or try to hoodwink them?

just remember, without these bands, you do not have a job.
 
#224
It seems to me that it's usually a few bad apples that give everyone else a bad name. In the case of soundmen, we've all had bad experiences.

Maybe I've been lucky... In my personal experience very few soundmen have expressed any contempt for me. And in the cases I can think of the contempt wasn't isolated to me as the bassist.
 
#225
fokof said:
Sorry , but room acoustics will make you tone change , a different PA will too. Whatever instrument you play.
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Exactly my point, we are in agreement here. Why is it then that somehow with guitar, pitched only 1 octave above, or with keys going even lower, they are allowed to tailor their tone to their liking and the soundman will take that finished sound and work with it, but with bass you're not allowed that same courtesy? I've done many many gigs where the guitar and keys have as much low end if not more than the bass, yet only with bass does the soundman somehow "need" to have the sound before any tone shaping because.....
 
#227
After many and many and many times having problems with the soundman, i decided :
1) not to bring anymore an amp with me but to rely just on the PA
2) to buy a professional DI box
3) to get a bass whose pure sound appals to me
The I ask the damn soundman to put me FLAT and then I act on the DI and the bass tones.
I always get a much better sound than the one he will provide.
 
#228
Marcus Willett said:
...
The point being that the soundman is not a producer. It is not his function to determine what the band should sound like. His idea of what he thinks sounds cool is trumped by the band's desires.
...
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That, right there, brings up an interesting point. Most serious bands really should have a "producer" for their live shows. Who would ever make a recording without somebody at least wearing the Producer's hat? Why not the same live? At least in a studio, you can go back & do over if you don't like how it sounds. Live, there's no 2nd take.

From the band's perspective, on stage & in the middle of actually generating the music, it's really impossible to know what things sound like in the audience. A live sound engineer, if it's somebody you trust, can be in the right spot. But for those times when you don't know/don't trust the person running sound to know or be able to make things sound to your liking, there really needs to be somebody out there that has your best interests in mind, knows what to do, & has the authority to act on your behalf (i.e. make it clear to the sound operator that ______ is calling the shots sound-wise).
 
#229
JohnMCA72 said:
Marcus Willett said:
...
The point being that the soundman is not a producer. It is not his function to determine what the band should sound like. His idea of what he thinks sounds cool is trumped by the band's desires.
...
That, right there, brings up an interesting point. Most serious bands really should have a "producer" for their live shows. Who would ever make a recording without somebody at least wearing the Producer's hat? Why not the same live? At least in a studio, you can go back & do over if you don't like how it sounds. Live, there's no 2nd take.
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it's another mouth to feed. that's why we don't. however, a lot of bands do bring a soundman who functions in that role.
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#230
JimmyM said:
it's another mouth to feed. that's why we don't. however, a lot of bands do bring a soundman who functions in that role.
Click to expand...

Of course it is, & with that level of responsibility, it's probably going to be a rather expensive mouth, too.

Point is, if you really, really, really have to have "your sound" your way, you've got to have your guy that you trust in a position to make it happen. On stage, you can then relax knowing that everything FOH is taken care of. If not, well...

Everything's a trade-off.
 
#236
regardless if the soundman knows more or not, and believe me, there are plenty who don't know a thing other than hooking up wires, nobody goes to a bar to hear the soundman. the entire reason the soundman has a job is because of the band they are running sound for. therefore, they should show respect, no matter who the band is or how inexperienced they are. when my band does a show, the soundman's name isn't mentioned in any of the advertising, and those people are there for two reasons...to get loaded and to hear our music.

that isn't to say that the band shouldn't listen to the soundman. i constantly solicit advice from soundmen who i respect. but make no mistake...nobody's there to hear the sound system unless there is a band in front of it, so you soundmen who complain about the "geniuses" you have to run sound for really need to realize that your place in the music foodchain is gone without them. come at me with an attitude about something i want to do and it'll be the last time you work for me.
 
#237
Okay, so I have this theory about why (some) soundmen and (some) bassists don't see eye to eye.

I think it has to do with (some) soundmen worrying about the bass BLENDING into the mix vs. (some) bassists worrying about the bass being heard ABOVE the mix (can you see where I'm going with this?).

So.... I did this experiment. I Googled the word "talkbass" together with the phrase "in the mix"

Then I Googled the word "talkbass" together with the phrase "through the mix"

Guess what boys and girls? The phrase "through the mix" comes up about six times more often.
 
#239
JimmyM said:
that isn't to say that the band shouldn't listen to the soundman. i constantly solicit advice from soundmen who i respect. but make no mistake...nobody's there to hear the sound system unless there is a band in front of it, so you soundmen who complain about the "geniuses" you have to run sound for really need to realize that your place in the music foodchain is gone without them. come at me with an attitude about something i want to do and it'll be the last time you work for me.
Click to expand...

that isn't to say that the soundman shouldn't listen to the band. I constantly solicit advice from bands who I respect. But make no mistake... nobody's there to hear the band unless there is a sound system behind them, so you bands who complain about the geniuses that have to run sound for you really need to realize that your place in the music foodchain is gone without them. Come at me with an attitude about something I want to do and it'll be the last time you play at my club.
 
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