6 times more often, i go hear a band and the bass is buried.Survey says: that's the side of the story you'd expect to hear six times more often here on talkbass.
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dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)
- Thread starter akaTRENT
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You have an awesome attitude, you must be an awesome soundman.Absolutely sure! If you should be be at the desk then why aren't you? Again, bring your own PA and run your own sound. Problem solved.
Okay I guess I'm a bad guy because I hate the fact that you "bass players" are bitching and whining about not getting what you want. Fricken grow up! If you are as great of a musician as you think you are, you would be willing to compromise with what you have to work with. If not then you are more than welcome to lug around a PA system and run your own sound. That's the only way that you are going to be completely happy because obviously no one else can get it right.
i'm more than welcome to do whatever the hell i want on my gigs. and that includes telling a soundman how to do his job when i think he's ruining it for us. and if you can't take it, i suggest you turn down working with me if you're ever offered the gig, which wouldn't happen in the first place.
damn, you'd think the soundman would be happy with making more money than everyone else. but no, apparently that's not enough for them.
what a bunch of cry babies 
did anyone ever give a friggen thought to what sounds best in the room?
As a bassist my job isn't to be "cutting through" - it's supposed to be "foundation". I had to be the guy to go to the back of the house, sit with the sound guy and tune it until the "Whole Band" sounds good, not just ME ME ME.
Good Grief dudes. Man Up and work together. Good music and sound doesn't get done with everyone pissing and moaning about this and that. You do whats best for the crowd.
and one more thing - distilling this to purely a financial issue - your little sound war will not benefit anyone if it results in no one coming back to hear you play because the sound SUCKED! and it wont matter whose fault it was.
Can I please ask the Moderator to spank all these wussies and close the thread?
is there a
uke: icon?
did anyone ever give a friggen thought to what sounds best in the room?
As a bassist my job isn't to be "cutting through" - it's supposed to be "foundation". I had to be the guy to go to the back of the house, sit with the sound guy and tune it until the "Whole Band" sounds good, not just ME ME ME.
Good Grief dudes. Man Up and work together. Good music and sound doesn't get done with everyone pissing and moaning about this and that. You do whats best for the crowd.
and one more thing - distilling this to purely a financial issue - your little sound war will not benefit anyone if it results in no one coming back to hear you play because the sound SUCKED! and it wont matter whose fault it was.
Can I please ask the Moderator to spank all these wussies and close the thread?
is there a
uke: icon?
Can you tell me what a 57 sounds like on an 810? It has a steep roll off around 50-60Hz. How about a Beta 52? Going to make you muddy. Ok, so to get a solid representation of your cab you need something like a heil PR40. You shell out the $300+ for a decent mic, because if you think your sound will come out of a 57, your wrong.
forget that. i worked a long time to get to the point where i could boss soundmen around and i'll be damned if i'm going to let them crap on our band because "i don't like that sound." i know what works for my band as a whole and i do it.
and btw, your bassist job description has no bearing on mine or anyone else's. so quit crying about our crying!
and btw, your bassist job description has no bearing on mine or anyone else's. so quit crying about our crying!
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
You guys are really missing the BIG picture. Here's how I see it coming from a very long time doing the (real) pro audio thing as well as designing amps and DI's. Note that I do 1000+ venues and haven't done a "bar" in probably 20 years, so take my comments with that in mind.
1. The band is a blend of musicians playing together, creating a sound that is comprised of a mix of the parts.
2. The parts are not (generally) whatever you feel like playing, but are arranged so that everybody has their acoustic time and space.
3. I spend as much time as necessary with each musician to get a representative tone from them (listening to their cabinet, or drums acousticly first) and then take that tone and manipulate it so that it fits within a FOH mix that works for the band, the room, the arrangements, the style and the type of audience. The same band playing for a younger audience might get a little thicker bass and kick, maybe a little more agressive mix in general. For an older crowd, I may have to hold back a little to avoid "other problems" that will make the night unplesant for all of us.
4. I rarely spend more time on the guitar as I do on bass. I may spend more time on keys and acoustic piano, maybe a little more time on drums (more inputs and processing), and I generally spend a fair amount of time on vocals too.
5. I do not look for perfection in anybody's tone since it will all change a little anyway once the crowd shows up. If you don't have much of a crowd, you can skip this worry. I will touch things up during the first song as needed. Very fine details of everybody's tone changes as you move around, my goal is to get something that's solid and translate it into a good mix.
6. I generally choose what I have found to be the best tools for the job, then adjust if they don't work as expected. For a bass without effects or a lot of overdrive, I generally start with a DI (pre or post as needed) and if I have trouble getting a tone that fits well and is representative of the stage sound (as heard out front), then I will add whatever is needed... maybe a comp, work w/ eq, add a mic or whatever. Sometimes I need the bass player to turn down a little so I can use some PA if they are too loud for the house.
7. If you plan on using mic and DI, you must be prepared to reverse the phase of the bass mic (or DI) channel if necessary. There is no way to tell or predict without listening to the two options. There is no real standard for acoustic versus electrical polarity in practice within the MI world.
8. I will also ask the guitarist to turn down if they are interfereing with how the bass, vocals or whatever is sitting in the mix. I do not pick on only the bass player, I pick on EVERYBODY equally.
9. I work with the band to get a set of monitor mixes that makes the band comfortable with themselves.
10. Rarely am I considered lazy, but if I do not throw a bass mic up right away you can be assured that I am working through one of a dozen other things that may be more important within the context of the whole mix and the big picture.
11. I have had bass players, guitarists, drummers, etc come up to me after a gig blown away by how fat and full the entire band sounded, and often they fail to recognize that by working together towards the end goal of a killer mix, the band comes off to their full potential and usually they have a lot more fun playing as a group than a bunch of guys that happen to be playing the same sone at each other.
12. With the regular acts that I work with every year, they generally say "make it happen". They don't need to micro-manage something that most good sound guys do in their sleep. There really are a lot of good sound guys out there. Try working with them rather than against them. Yes, there are some real losers too, but up the food chain they tend to get cast aside.
1. The band is a blend of musicians playing together, creating a sound that is comprised of a mix of the parts.
2. The parts are not (generally) whatever you feel like playing, but are arranged so that everybody has their acoustic time and space.
3. I spend as much time as necessary with each musician to get a representative tone from them (listening to their cabinet, or drums acousticly first) and then take that tone and manipulate it so that it fits within a FOH mix that works for the band, the room, the arrangements, the style and the type of audience. The same band playing for a younger audience might get a little thicker bass and kick, maybe a little more agressive mix in general. For an older crowd, I may have to hold back a little to avoid "other problems" that will make the night unplesant for all of us.
4. I rarely spend more time on the guitar as I do on bass. I may spend more time on keys and acoustic piano, maybe a little more time on drums (more inputs and processing), and I generally spend a fair amount of time on vocals too.
5. I do not look for perfection in anybody's tone since it will all change a little anyway once the crowd shows up. If you don't have much of a crowd, you can skip this worry. I will touch things up during the first song as needed. Very fine details of everybody's tone changes as you move around, my goal is to get something that's solid and translate it into a good mix.
6. I generally choose what I have found to be the best tools for the job, then adjust if they don't work as expected. For a bass without effects or a lot of overdrive, I generally start with a DI (pre or post as needed) and if I have trouble getting a tone that fits well and is representative of the stage sound (as heard out front), then I will add whatever is needed... maybe a comp, work w/ eq, add a mic or whatever. Sometimes I need the bass player to turn down a little so I can use some PA if they are too loud for the house.
7. If you plan on using mic and DI, you must be prepared to reverse the phase of the bass mic (or DI) channel if necessary. There is no way to tell or predict without listening to the two options. There is no real standard for acoustic versus electrical polarity in practice within the MI world.
8. I will also ask the guitarist to turn down if they are interfereing with how the bass, vocals or whatever is sitting in the mix. I do not pick on only the bass player, I pick on EVERYBODY equally.
9. I work with the band to get a set of monitor mixes that makes the band comfortable with themselves.
10. Rarely am I considered lazy, but if I do not throw a bass mic up right away you can be assured that I am working through one of a dozen other things that may be more important within the context of the whole mix and the big picture.
11. I have had bass players, guitarists, drummers, etc come up to me after a gig blown away by how fat and full the entire band sounded, and often they fail to recognize that by working together towards the end goal of a killer mix, the band comes off to their full potential and usually they have a lot more fun playing as a group than a bunch of guys that happen to be playing the same sone at each other.
12. With the regular acts that I work with every year, they generally say "make it happen". They don't need to micro-manage something that most good sound guys do in their sleep. There really are a lot of good sound guys out there. Try working with them rather than against them. Yes, there are some real losers too, but up the food chain they tend to get cast aside.
Agedhorse the difference is that you are a pro, most of the soundman people are complain about are amateurs (Like Me). These soundman might think they are pros, but they are amateurs who are a little more up on the food chain.
I really don't have a problem with using a Pre DI, many bassist like this sound and more power to them. I can also understand a bass player, like JimmyM, who spent a lot of $$$ on a SVT because that is the tone he likes, wanting to mic his SVT..
I've heard great bass sound from a DI and from a SVT micked with a sennheiser 421 for example. Neither is better, just different .
I really don't have a problem with using a Pre DI, many bassist like this sound and more power to them. I can also understand a bass player, like JimmyM, who spent a lot of $$$ on a SVT because that is the tone he likes, wanting to mic his SVT..
I've heard great bass sound from a DI and from a SVT micked with a sennheiser 421 for example. Neither is better, just different .
andy, you are obviously someone who gets it. when you say "representative of the stage sound," that's all you'd have to say for me to get out of your way and let you create the magic. but if someone's going to create a fuss because i want a mic with the di, or want to run the di through the speaker, i instantly realize they don't get it and they might need a little helping hand to create the magic as we see it.
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