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dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)

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Then why get so bent? Sounds like the guy told a little white lie to prevent a long & drawn out conversation that wouldn't improve the sound or your performance in the least. Professionalism is never optional, but if I saw a guy roll in with an SVT over an 8x10 in a small room, I woudn't take his FOH advice too seriously. I would be respectul and professional, but I sure wouldn't do as he asked merely because he asked for it.

My comment about the mic on the 10" was not meant to downplay the usefulness of a mic on a cab - it is in fact my strong preference to rely mainly upon the microphone whenever practical. What I was trying to point out was that the miced signal in that case doesn't really represent what those cabs do in space, and that it's not as important as one might think given how much that rig can fill a room without even trying.

The FOH guy was probably just trying to get some definition happening through the mains. I believe you when you say you weren't blaringly loud, but even barely working, that rig puts out a lot of sound into a small room.

I learned a long time ago to learn what works in a given situation (or at least listen to those who know) and just do it rather than get too emotionally attached to "my way".

Basically my point was that this happens all the time. But this time someone tried to deceive me, and thats low.

These di threads always turn into a flame fest.

P.S. Since my rig obviously means nothing and is too loud and a waste someone should message me with an offer on it and take it off my hands. After all I am an amateur and have no idea about what I'm talking about.
 
Then why get so bent? Sounds like the guy told a little white lie to prevent a long & drawn out conversation that wouldn't improve the sound or your performance in the least. Professionalism is never optional, but if I saw a guy roll in with an SVT over an 8x10 in a small room, I woudn't take his FOH advice too seriously. I would be respectul and professional, but I sure wouldn't do as he asked merely because he asked for it.

My comment about the mic on the 10" was not meant to downplay the usefulness of a mic on a cab - it is in fact my strong preference to rely mainly upon the microphone whenever practical. What I was trying to point out was that the miced signal in that case doesn't really represent what those cabs do in space, and that it's not as important as one might think given how much that rig can fill a room without even trying.

The FOH guy was probably just trying to get some definition happening through the mains. I believe you when you say you weren't blaringly loud, but even barely working, that rig puts out a lot of sound into a small room.

I learned a long time ago to learn what works in a given situation (or at least listen to those who know) and just do it rather than get too emotionally attached to "my way".


Furthermore, I didnt say anything to the sound guy, that would be unprofessional, that's why I'm venting here and not at the gig. If the sound guys thinks his way is right I am always going to let him have his way, unless I get to a point where i have more of a say. Even if I am unhappy with it, Ill let him do what he gots to do.

And so I come to TB to vent and get opinions.
 
You're right, this does get brought up a lot. I actually understand everything you are saying and agree with it to a large extent but what I would love to hear, have asked for many times and have never seen is a fact-based, evidence-supported answer to the question:

How is it that the above mentioned scenario does not apply to guitar as well?

In fact if not moreso since the guitarist is drastically coloring his sound and it therefore in all likelihood would be even less transferable to FOH.

While we're at it, an even better one IMO is this:

If the argument is that the soundman is best equipped to determine what "works" in terms of bass tone out front...that he should have the bass tone without any electrical modifications to the tone that will make it more difficult to "work"....that he should have the ultimate say in crafting my sound...

Shouldn't that extend further? Why should he not then have at least some say in my choice of pickups? Or strings? Or hand position and technique?

In fact any of those factors could make a huge difference in tone and could muddy things up and/or make the bass tone "un-workable". Indeed, mechanical adjustments can impact the tone nearly as much as electronic ones so it seems reasonable that if the soundman gets to decide what my tone starts with from an electronic standpoint, why should he not have at least some say (if not all...he does from an electronic standpoint, generally) in the mechanics of the tone being generated?

Oh, sure; I've heard the "That's ridiculous/not the same thing" response, but never really had anyone explain specifically why.

Easy example:

Soundman says "Hey man, the signal from the mic is muddy. I need to run a DI."

OK, so I hear the sound coming through the mains and it's nothing but click and clack. We're playing a tune where I want a fat bass tone that's dark....it's what suits the tune. I pluck very lightly by the neck, yielding a very different tone that what he was getting from me a moment ago when I was playing hard over the bridge. Otherwise I have made no electrical adjustments of any kind.

If I had made an electrical adjustment to get that different tone (tone control, active EQ, pickup blending...whatever) most would feel the soundman would have within his purview to say "Hey, don't do that, it's not "working" out front"

If that is the reasoning should it not also be within his purview to nix any mechanical adjustments to tone as well? Their impact on the tone....determining whether it "works" are just as substantial....why would that be different?

Just some thoughts....

All I have is experience. I don't have any fancy sound wave charts ar anything like that. But the FACT of the matter is that MOST of the time a bass sounds better direct and a guitar sounds better miced. It just is what it is. One other thing to consider is that I'm not talking about EVERY bass or rig. I have had the joy of running sound for some players with GREAT tone for out front coming from their rig. But most of the time....um...no. And the worst thing I have to deal with on a sound gig is a bass player taking it personal when "his" tone sounds like crap out front and I start walking towards the stage with a DI. Gimme a break. I get paid to make you sound GOOD. Why would I bother with a DI (and all the bulls#!t that goes along with it) if "your" tone sounded great out front? The ONLY reason I bother is because sometimes it sounds BETTER than "your" tone coming through your "awesome" rig. Sorry. It's just a fact. I wouldn't knock heads with other bassists if I didn't think it would help out front. If I have time (usually I don't because the band gets to soundcheck LATE) I will ALWAYS give your rig a shot. If it sounds great running direct out of your rig (or using a mic) I will leave it as is. But if it doesn't I'm bringing out the DI. You can piss and moan all you like, but I'm not working for you. I'm either working for the club owner (house system) or the guy who owns the PA company. And it's my job to make things sound as good as I can. Cheers.
 
Do you realize how rude you sound?:rollno:



Just calling it as I see it, youngster - let me give you a little advice: just because you bothered to haul an SVT and 810 to a tiny room gig, that doesn't become the soundguy's problem in ANY way - and *most* of them will think you're bringing too much to the party, and probably don't know what you're doing - and they *may* just be right...


You think I'm being "rude"??? - get a few gigs under your belt, and I guarantee you'll run into someone who's rude when you pitch a hissy fit for no legitimate reason... Sorry if you think that's being harsh, dude - but it *seems* like you're in need of some experience, and a little calming down/growing up...

- georgestrings
 
All I have is experience. I don't have any fancy sound wave charts ar anything like that. But the FACT of the matter is that MOST of the time a bass sounds better direct and a guitar sounds better miced. It just is what it is. One other thing to consider is that I'm not talking about EVERY bass or rig. I have had the joy of running sound for some players with GREAT tone for out front coming from their rig. But most of the time....um...no. And the worst thing I have to deal with on a sound gig is a bass player taking it personal when "his" tone sounds like crap out front and I start walking towards the stage with a DI. Gimme a break. I get paid to make you sound GOOD. Why would I bother with a DI (and all the bulls#!t that goes along with it) if "your" tone sounded great out front? The ONLY reason I bother is because sometimes it sounds BETTER than "your" tone coming through your "awesome" rig. Sorry. It's just a fact. I wouldn't knock heads with other bassists if I didn't think it would help out front. If I have time (usually I don't because the band gets to soundcheck LATE) I will ALWAYS give your rig a shot. If it sounds great running direct out of your rig (or using a mic) I will leave it as is. But if it doesn't I'm bringing out the DI. You can piss and moan all you like, but I'm not working for you. I'm either working for the club owner (house system) or the guy who owns the PA company. And it's my job to make things sound as good as I can. Cheers.

Exactly. See but at least you would have the respect to be straight up with me. Not try to trick me thinking I wont know better.
 
Trent, I hope my comments were not seen as flaming or disrespectful. They weren't intended that way.

If anyone finds themselves getting upset about not having the mic though the pa in the situation you've described, they need to take an inventory of what's going on within themselves when they're out there playing music. I don't think there was any mention of bad sound in the room.... just not getting what you want. If the mic was set up but turned off at the board, my guess (based on experience) would be that he tried blending the signals but found the mic to be useless or harmful to the overall sound of the band (which trumps your need for personal satisfaction in the process, by the way).
 
Just calling it as I see it, youngster - let me give you a little advice: just because you bothered to haul an SVT and 810 to a tiny room gig, that doesn't become the soundguy's problem in ANY way - and *most* of them will think you're bringing too much to the party, and probably don't know what you're doing - and they *may* just be right...


You think I'm being "rude"??? - get a few gigs under your belt, and I guarantee you'll run into someone who's rude when you pitch a hissy fit for no legitimate reason... Sorry if you think that's being harsh, dude - but it *seems* like you're in need of some experience, and a little calming down/growing up...

- georgestrings

I can easily say I have played alot of gigs, and played with some very legitimate acts. I have been playing music for almost 9 years and have been gigging for the last 6.

In the last year I have played for some pretty huge crowds, so trust me when I say I am aware.

Dont be condescending to me. I respect everyone and expect to to be respected.

I was very calm at the gig. Thats why Im venting here.
 
Trent, I hope my comments were not seen as flaming or disrespectful. They weren't intended that way.

If anyone finds themselves getting upset about not having the mic though the pa in the situation you've described, they need to take an inventory of what's going on within themselves when they're out there playing music. I don't think there was any mention of bad sound in the room.... just not getting what you want. If the mic was set up but turned off at the board, my guess (based on experience) would be that he tried blending the signals but found the mic to be useless or harmful to the overall sound of the band (which trumps your need for personal satisfaction in the process, by the way).

I know you werent. Like I said sound guy knows best even if i disagree. It saves everyone lots of trouble.

I want to clarify i didnt say anything to the guy that was bad. And i also didnt let my ego about my sound enter into the conversation.

Even said thanks when we were done playing and shook his hand. So believe me I was extremely proffesional at the gig and always am. I stick my tail between my legs to avoid any conflict at every show.

Im just always baffled when this happens, at the small gig or the big gig.
 
Furthermore, I didnt say anything to the sound guy, that would be unprofessional, that's why I'm venting here and not at the gig. If the sound guys thinks his way is right I am always going to let him have his way, unless I get to a point where i have more of a say. Even if I am unhappy with it, Ill let him do what he gots to do.

And so I come to TB to vent and get opinions.

I meant that professionalism wasn't optional for the sound guy.
 
If you're smart, you'll try to learn something here - as there's some pretty experienced people here who's advice you can benefit from...




- georgestrings
I have learned from many people on here. I even learned on this thread that sometimes i have to chillax. But you havent really tried to "teach me" you have really just chastised me. thats why im responding the way I am.

Now guys like two fingers, and jimmy m, ben clarke etc, tell me when im wrong and why without having to throw in "your being immature" and "you need to grow up" and "you havent played enough gigs to know."

thanks.
 
I can easily say I have played alot of gigs, and played with some very legitimate acts. I have been playing music for almost 9 years and have been gigging for the last 6.

In the last year I have played for some pretty huge crowds, so trust me when I say I am aware.

Dont be condescending to me. I respect everyone and expect to to be respected.

I was very calm at the gig. Thats why Im venting here.


I'm sorry, but the situation laid out in your OP, and it's rant don't seem like the work of someone with 6 years of gigging under their belt - how old are you???


- georgestrings
 
I meant that professionalism wasn't optional for the sound guy.

Oh yeah. haha. basically im starting to understand the sound guy logic and im working on getting a small rig to compensate now.

Big rig for the unsupported shows,
Small for situations like this.

I sense that everyone thinks I had a fit at the show, it was nothing like that, I even joked with my drummer about it.
I pride myself in how professional I am and it has gotten me alot of respect in my area.

On here I come off as a whiner haha but in person Im as professional as it gets.
 
I'm sorry, but the situation laid out in your OP, and it's rant don't seem like the work of someone with 6 years of gigging under their belt - how old are you???


- georgestrings

Well let me rephrase and that 6 years gigging, but not necessarily on bass. Bass has been consistent for the past 2 years just about.
I am 20 years young, 21 in a few months, so im not old but im not a kid, Like i say I whine on here and like to know if Im right or wrong, but in person I shut my mouth act proffesional, and go with the motions.
 
I have learned from many people on here. I even learned on this thread that sometimes i have to chillax. But you havent really tried to "teach me" you have really just chastised me. thats why im responding the way I am.

Now guys like two fingers, and jimmy m, ben clarke etc, tell me when im wrong and why without having to throw in "your being immature" and "you need to grow up" and "you havent played enough gigs to know."

thanks.



Actually, I did try to teach you something - maybe I wasn't quite as gentle about it as you'd like, but ya can't win 'em all...

Truth is, this is a rough business at times - and people aren't always going to be as nice to you as you'd like - ESPECIALLY when you're freaking out about not having 2 channels of board at a tiny gig that you're already carrying with an SVT and 810...

Atleast I see from your posts that you didn't flip out at the gig - good move on your part...


- georgestrings
 
I'm sorry, but the situation laid out in your OP, and it's rant don't seem like the work of someone with 6 years of gigging under their belt - how old are you???


- georgestrings

Anyway heres what I learned. some of what i already knew.

Having an svt/8x10 is overkill for probably about half the shows I play.
So It would help me to get a secondary smaller rig for these shows.

My sm isnt a great choice for a bass cab mic and that could be the reason the sound guy didnt mic it. Instead i should look to mic like the audix d4/d6 or beta 57 etc.

If I am really dyeing for the svt sound I can use jimmys vt pedal/di speaker sim solution.

bass is harder to sit in the mix than guitars and thats why the di is preffered.

I can go on but you get the jist.
 
Actually, I did try to teach you something - maybe I wasn't quite as gentle about it as you'd like, but ya can't win 'em all...

Truth is, this is a rough business at times - and people aren't always going to be as nice to you as you'd like - ESPECIALLY when you're freaking out about not having 2 channels of board at a tiny gig that you're already carrying with an SVT and 810...

Atleast I see from your posts that you didn't flip out at the gig - good move on your part...


- georgestrings

Yeah man I would never flip at the gig. What if i have to play there again, or see the sound guy at another gig. gotta keep it cozy.

And I know im stubborn so Im basically trying to find out what are some steps i can take to try to get at least some of my sound in without being a jerk or looking unproffesional.

First thing I always do at agig is find out who the sound guys and lighting guys are and give a handshake. its the proper thing to do.

Also If i had a smaller rig i would bring it and thats why im working on getting one.
 
Well let me rephrase and that 6 years gigging, but not necessarily on bass. Bass has been consistent for the past 2 years just about.
I am 20 years young, 21 in a few months, so im not old but im not a kid, Like i say I whine on here and like to know if Im right or wrong, but in person I shut my mouth act proffesional, and go with the motions.

So, what were you doing when you were gigging at age 14 - I'm just curious...



- georgestrings
 
Yeah man I would never flip at the gig. What if i have to play there again, or see the sound guy at another gig. gotta keep it cozy.

And I know im stubborn so Im basically trying to find out what are some steps i can take to try to get at least some of my sound in without being a jerk or looking unproffesional.

First thing I always do at agig is find out who the sound guys and lighting guys are and give a handshake. its the proper thing to do.

Also If i had a smaller rig i would bring it and thats why im working on getting one.


That's cool - because stirring up a bunch of crap at a gig isn't going to help you, or your band in any way... Personally, I'd rather have too much rig than not enough - especially for playing rock - so "only" having an 810 isn't a bad thing, IMO...

Regarding soundguys, PAs, and playing gigs - the absolute best advice I can give you is to always concentrate on your playing ONLY, and not so much about what goes on with the FOH - because you'll never have as much control over that as you'd like, and not only does battling sound people get old, it can bite you in the ass in more than 1 way - they can intentionally do a crappy job for you and your band, and you can throw off yours and your band's performance by losing the focus you need to put on your best performance every night...

If you play well, and your band sounds good - that'll get through to the crowd - almost inspite of the sound and stage crew...


- georgestrings
 
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