dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)

[JimmyM]

JimmyM, I'm partly in shock that you've backed away from a mic... What DI did you decide on again?

Countryman Type 85. I did it partly because I like the sound, and partly because I was tired of being on the road and getting crappy rigs that weren't worth micing. I figure that between the 85 and a VT Bass pedal that I could get my sound that way and have it be more consistent and easier for me to deal with than trying to get a good sound out of a crap backline rig and micing it.

 

[Marcus Willett]

And so far I see one argument from the mic crowd; if guitarists get a mic, why not bassists? Well thats because theres a slight difference in how each operates and the frequency it covers

Everything is different; that's a meaningless standard. Organ and piano often occupy the same sonic strata. Many times guitar will also.

 

[JimmyM]

No I am just being realistic. The two guys that are really pushing my way or the highway in this thread are Jimmy M and Marcus. Both play with national acts. Meanwhile Pay to play bands are doing four band FUBAR gigs. The soundguys at these are generally less experienced, using inferior PAs. They probably see 20 bands a week of which half are just plain awful, with a couple really good and the rest just OK.

And that's exactly what the bands say about the soundmen

BTW, just because I play with a national act doesn't mean I don't get sideswiped by soundmen. Same for Marcus. Nor do I think it makes me any more qualified to override a soundman. Soundmen should do right by EVERYONE, not just national acts. Yeah, OK, a lot of bands suck. Not an excuse.

OTOH, there is a lot you can learn from good soundmen, so you should often take their advice or at least hear them out. But if a bass player has good reason for wanting to do something, he should be accomodated, not thwarted.

 

[georgestrings]

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulusman
Well if you ever get far enough up the foodchain to get a gaurantee then you can start dictating terms to the soundman. Until then you are SOL.

Thats an ignorant statement.

Not IME, it isn't - for example, I'm at the level as a player in my area where the sound guys I deal with are all pretty skilled, and quite professional - so, it's pretty rare that I have any troubles with them... Also, *if* I really wanted to be mic'd up, I could have that happen without much hassle, if any at all... I use a wireless, and will usually get out in front and hear my bass through the FOH - sometimes, I'll ask the soundman for a little tone tweaking, and sometimes even a little different mix after soundcheck, if I don't like what I'm hearing... It wasn't always that way for me, though - like modulusman said - depends on your spot in the food chain...



- georgestrings

 

[fokof]

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You guys are working so hard in this thread !


Hats off

 

[Marcus Willett]

You guys are working so hard in this thread

Well, someone has to debunk all the BS out there...billfitzmaurice can only do so much.

 

[JimmyM]

You guys are working so hard in this thread !

I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

Oh, sorry...most of you probably don't remember the movie "Network." Anyway, I'm just tired of being dictated to and hoodwinked by soundmen, and I'm tired for everyone else who gets dictated to and hoodwinked by soundmen. That's all.

 

[JackANSI]

Countryman Type 85. I did it partly because I like the sound, and partly because I was tired of being on the road and getting crappy rigs that weren't worth micing. I figure that between the 85 and a VT Bass pedal that I could get my sound that way and have it be more consistent and easier for me to deal with than trying to get a good sound out of a crap backline rig and micing it.

I did end up buying one of those Heil PR40's and two PR35's on the off chance they were as good as you made them out to be

I love them and so do anyone else who uses them... If only they made the PR35's so they could be modified to look like an SM58, I might be able to use them more... People are still pretty resistant to anything but a Shure...

I'll suggest to anyone who runs sound that if you dislike mic'ing something, buy a really good mic and give it another try. There are still more situations I come across that a DI is the better choice than a mic (mostly worried about pricks swiping them), but when you do gigs with more responsible people, it is nice to hand them a CD of their performance at the end of the night (that they didn't expect) and later get emails asking about pricing studio time...

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, the Heils rock. But I still ended up sticking to the 58 because it's more forgiving of bad technique, and though I try, I'm still pretty sloppy.

However, I'm thinking about going back to the PR 40 on my cabs. The DI's great, but there's a thickness in the mids with the mic that I miss in a mix.

Great advice about the CD, though. A soundman with a small project studio could get some work out of it.

 

[sonic assassin]

ive heard great things about the PR 22 as a vocal mic. improved pr20. apparently needed very little EQ or compression.. which a 58 always needed.

i think if anyone is dumb enough to throw a fit because it says heil and not shure, then they need a mic to the face.

 

[JimmyM]

ive heard great things about the PR 22 as a vocal mic. improved pr20. apparently needed very little EQ or compression.. which a 58 always needed.

i think if anyone is dumb enough to throw a fit because it says heil and not shure, then they need a mic to the face.

Old habits die hard, and it's not just the name. The Shure is a very easy mic to sing through, and it's an industry standard for a reason. I've had a lot of people try to get me to use other mics, and I almost always go for the 58 instead, the Heil being an exception. But is IS hard to sing though compared to the 58. You have to be right on the Heil to be heard.

 

[JackANSI]

Great advice about the CD, though. A soundman with a small project studio could get some work out of it.

I always record every gig I mix unless the band objects. They usually don't as long as they get a copy.

I use the recording to critique my own mix later. I know that live vs studio things are different, but it never hurts to double check your work any way you can..

 

[rob2966]

Yeah Heres my weird thing, I use my effects constantly, A delay, the pog, and a bass muff.

I use a Bassbone DI with my pedals in the switchable loop. I let the soundman know I have the DI and they have handed me the XLR to connect to it EVERY TIME.

Not once have they tried to push their own DI.

I tweak the Bassbone and other pedals to get "my DI sound", from that point on it is out of my hands. The signal will also go to my LMII and Berg HS410 which I will tweak to sound good to me on stage (essentially a monitor).

Not saying to use the above equipment; however, if you get a system with a DI that you like the sound of and has your effects going into it, the soundguy will likely use it since it is just a simple as his own DI, IME.

I think the 410 is also less scary (for the soundguy and your back/bandmates).

Later
Rob

 

[WalterBush]

if you get a system with a DI that you like the sound of and has your effects going into it, the soundguy will likely use it since it is just a simple as his own DI, IME.

+100. That's been my experience, too. Also, not asking, "are we going DI, or can you mike me?" or similar questions help. Saying, "Just show me the XLR, I'll take care of it, man" politely works wonders.

I've gotten used to my band bringing its own PA and playing at a set install, but at the venues I end up at where the PA and its crew are already provided, I've even been known to bring my own XLR and advance towards the snake with it, asking the soundguy, "which channel you want me in?"

Remove the necessity for the soundman to step in, and he usually won't, IME. They've got things they'd much rather be doing than fussing over the bass DI/mic situation, like isolating that feedback from the floor toms, or getting your guitarist to turn down.

 

[Davecg2]

now that im playing out atleast once or twice a month ive been wondering the same things. I have a hartke hydrive combo that i use and have always been told to just use the DI. I dont really know enough to disagree with a soundman so ive always just gone with it. That said, my hydrive has these awesome paper/aluminum cones that very literally make my tone. I think next show ill ask whats been suggested here and see if hell take a DI and mic my cab and blend it. One thing im worried about is if the soundman has a crappy mic, id like to buy my own mic so that i know the mic (if low quality) wont degrade my sound. I saw a few people mention some mics earlier, can anyone suggest a few good mics for me to research?

 

[JimmyM]

I've used and liked a few mics...EV RE 20, Sennheiser 421, Beyer M88, even Shure 58's and 57's kick ass in conjunction with a DI to catch the low end that gets rolled off the Shures. I bought a Heil PR 40 for my rig. Any mic that has good low end specs and fairly flat response will work. Some people like kick mics but I'm not a fan because they can scoop out too many mids and get stepped on by the bass drum.

 

[troyus]

I read this whole thing. The countryman is great. I use one all the time for recording. Sound guys always want to DI. It puzzles me when I'm running through a Berg cab and a Ampeg tube head, can't the guess I'm going to request a blend? Guess not. Lately I bring out the vintage head with no DI, so they have to mic the cab, when they make a move for the bass cable I tell them bad idea because my pedal board is super noisy. Problem solved.

This problem seems much worse in some genre's than others. I've been working with a reggae band and those gigs, the sound guys are all about the DI, it's annoying.

 

[JimmyM]

In the case of reggae, I can understand soundmen going for the DI. The vast majority of reggae bassists make their amps have nothing but low end cranked way high, and it's a giant mud puddle in FOH, especially in large venues with a lot of natural reverb. Still, if that's the sound the bassist wants, it should be respected, just cleaned up a little so it's not all mud.

 

[Davecg2]

I've used and liked a few mics...EV RE 20, Sennheiser 421, Beyer M88, even Shure 58's and 57's kick ass in conjunction with a DI to catch the low end that gets rolled off the Shures. I bought a Heil PR 40 for my rig. Any mic that has good low end specs and fairly flat response will work. Some people like kick mics but I'm not a fan because they can scoop out too many mids and get stepped on by the bass drum.

thanks for the reply ive been checking out the ones you recommended and have some more questions. when you say has good low end specs what do you mean. is there a particular frequency response i want to check for and if so whats a good range (im a total noob when it comes to stuff like that)? and are there any other specs i should pay close attention to and what should they be? thanks again for the help.

 

[sonic assassin]

thanks for the reply ive been checking out the ones you recommended and have some more questions. when you say has good low end specs what do you mean. is there a particular frequency response i want to check for and if so whats a good range (im a total noob when it comes to stuff like that)? and are there any other specs i should pay close attention to and what should they be? thanks again for the help.

you ideally want something with a fairly flat response. let your amp do the talking. the re20 is great for that. i personally like the md421 because it has a bump around 3k that is good for note definition and a little bit of scoop that cuts mud. i like aggressive bass.

look out for mics with ridiculous amounts of low end. a lot of kick mics will just add a TON of bass for someone else to EQ out. if theres a dotted line on the low end, thats a proximity effect thing. the closer it gets to a signal, more bass. this is very true of the shure beta52.

the 57 and 58 are notorious for not having much low end. goodbye sub lows, if you want them. check the frequency response chart and then try to find samples or ask around here.