Definition of "Cutting through the mix"?

[AGCurry]

... It depends on what frequency ranges the other instruments are occupying ...

You and several others have touched on this key point. The density of sounds made by others in the same frequency range will determine whether the bass is clearly discernible.

 

[Wasnex]

You and several others have touched on this key point. The density of sounds made by others in the same frequency range will determine whether the bass is clearly discernible.

A lot depends on which frequencies build up in the performance venue as well. So it's entirely situational IMHO.

 

[ILIA]

You and several others have touched on this key point. The density of sounds made by others in the same frequency range will determine whether the bass is clearly discernible.

AGCurry nailed it.

Your friendly neighborhood audio engineer can take care of it.

 

[SemiDriven]

The problem of not cutting through the mix is mostly acoustic in nature IMHO. Most of the time, I had full PA support and a competent audio tech, so I did not worry about my sound out in the audience. I do prefer more of a HiFi, full-range type sound that is as even and focused as possible, but it should not be inappropriately "in-your-face". Of course it depends on the style of music somewhat.

IMHO the sound should be processed discretely for each location and intended use. Out in the audience, it's not necessarily desired for my sound to cut through the mix. The audio tech will dial in the EQ and compression so my sound provides the appropriate foundation, or pops out when desired.

On stage is another matter. On stage I setup my rig so my sound jumps out of the mix at the lowest possible volume. I tend to elevate my cabs to about waist level, and also tilt them back to aim at my head. The last touring rig I used had an Eden D210XLT and D410XLT, but I usually only ran the 210.

IMHO a fairly dark sound can work well in a recording. But in a live setting, the bass tends to get darker and more diffuse as the sound travels over distance. In experience, it's very common for the lows to build up into a diffuse field that mask higher frequencies. Don't get me wrong. I find really fat lows to be highly desirable, but unfortunately (IMHO) most acoustic environments don't support using a really fat bass sound live. So long ago I adopted an approach using fairly lean lows.

I also tend to run a really bright sound on stage, but my technique is pretty clean and smooth, so I don't produce a lot of unintentional gank, grind, or fret rattle. Part of my smooth sound is also the contour I use. Although my sound is bright I prefer to put a bit of a dip in the 2-4K range, which is where most of the gank lies.

Of course anyone who happens to set up to close to me on stage may think my sound is overly bright and obnoxious (if not downright painful). I tend to wear ER15s which do darken the sound a bit. I run my amp bright enough to overcome the darkening induced by the ear plugs.

The higher frequencies coming from a cab tends to be more directional than low frequencies. By tilting the cab back, the high-mids shoot up at about a 30 degree angle towards my ears, rather than straight out towards the audience. Elevating the cab reduces the lows and also puts a notch in low mids. The frequency of the notch is determined by the height. Max cancellation occurs at frequency where the distance between the driver and floor equals 1/4 of a wavelength

By limiting the volume and amount of sub-bass produced by my stage rig, it fights less with the PA. This gives the audio tech more control over how the bass sounds to the audience.

Well said.

Although I haven't gotten around to it yet, one experiment in the pursuit of cutting through the mix on stage is to elevate my 12-cab near me and keep my 15-cab on the floor and on the other side of the drummer pointing at me. Clarity + thump is the goal!

 

[legalbass]

"Cutting through the mix" one of those silly catchphrases that always has me rolling my eyes.

When I think of something that "cuts" I think of something piercing, thin and sharp. The word hardly implies good bass tone and I would love to see people stop using it.

No one instrumentalist in any ensemble should want to "cut through" anything; maybe a little volume boost for a solo but otherwise the whole point is that the ensemble is mixed *properly* with nothing too loud or too quiet.

If you're fighting your band members for sonic space because you're afraid the audience won't hear you, you're doing it wrong.

Be a small details person in your note choice and technique; be a big picture person in your tone and its place in the overall sound of the group. It isn't all about you.

 

[makanudo]

CTTM to me is mixing to give every instrument's characteristic frequency notch it's space.

If the kick is 40 hz and below and 3-4k and above, avoid boosting in those spaces.
If the bass is mostly heard in the 700-1000 hz, boost those frequencies or carve them out of other instruments spectrum to make space.

CTTM is a group effort unforutnately. No single piece of equipment is going to help achieve that on it's own.

 

[SemiDriven]

If you're fighting your band members for sonic space because you're afraid the audience won't hear you, you're doing it wrong.

I need a new band.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

One of the first things you learn on here, is that no matter what your intent to communicate, it can be misunderstood, misinterpreted or misaligned with your narrative to assign relevance to an irrelevant response. Sadly, this is also inherent with the internet so we are stuck with it. That being a constant in modern life, I decided to start this thread so that the similar and dissimilar response could stand on their own.

My definition of "cutting through the mix" or "CTTM" to assist brevity, is substantially "specific note and tone definition" rather than volume separation. This would include the subtle growl, that can come from some basses you "chose" to incorporate into "your" sound.

Most basses can be heard quite well by turning them up on the amp or mixing board and that is exactly what I am NOT talking about. CTTM is not about volume in a mix. When you play articulate note phrases to accentuate musical passages, CTTM allows these to be clearly heard as the showcasing additions you as the bass player brought to the sound. It is your contribution. That which separates you from the last or the next guy. It is what makes you, you. It is what created your idols and mentors.(though it is easier in the studio to control and more difficult in live settings, hence our frequent subject of live settings)

So, I have essentially made this easier to digest by breaking it into 2 parts, "Your individual playing style through note and tone selection" and secondly, "the ability to clearly hear every aspect of it contributing to the sound of the song".

Long winded and my apologies for that, but I need to separate volume as the separator for CTTM.

P bass with tort

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I need a new band.

No, you just need more speakers.


Everyone always talks about "fighting screaming guitar players"

Bass beats guitar every time. It's not even a contest. Loud guitar hurts your ears. Loud bass makes the entire band disappear.

 

[ILIA]

CTTM to me is mixing to give every instrument's characteristic frequency notch it's space.

If the kick is 40 hz and below and 3-4k and above, avoid boosting in those spaces.
If the bass is mostly heard in the 700-1000 hz, boost those frequencies or carve them out of other instruments spectrum to make space.

CTTM is a group effort unforutnately. No single piece of equipment is going to help achieve that on it's own.

Shhhhh. Music merchandising business models depend on a bunch of musicians thinking that the gear is what is responsible for CTTM, and that the next bass that they buy will be the one that helps them CTTM.

 

[Ric5]

the opposite of cutting through the mix is getting lost in the mix

 

[walksupright]

Well, my definition of the pocket is . . .

Oops! Wrong flame war.

 

[John the Bassist]

I agree with those that said that it depends on the frequency mixing of all the instruments. I do think that it is also very dependent on genre and song. That said, I also find that a lot of the character in a bass’ tone lies in the 800-1000 Hz range, and in many cases (but certainly not all) some boost in that range can sound quite nice and add some clarity to the bass in a mix.

During my first few years of playing, I firmly believed that the secret to cutting through a mix was simply owning a Warwick

 

[DJ Bebop]

The problem of not cutting through the mix is mostly acoustic in nature IMHO. Most of the time, I had full PA support and a competent audio tech, so I did not worry about my sound out in the audience. I do prefer more of a HiFi, full-range type sound that is as even and focused as possible, but it should not be inappropriately "in-your-face". Of course it depends on the style of music somewhat.

IMHO the sound should be processed discretely for each location and intended use. Out in the audience, it's not necessarily desired for my sound to cut through the mix. The audio tech will dial in the EQ and compression so my sound provides the appropriate foundation, or pops out when desired.

On stage is another matter. On stage I setup my rig so my sound jumps out of the mix at the lowest possible volume. I tend to elevate my cabs to about waist level, and also tilt them back to aim at my head. The last touring rig I used had an Eden D210XLT and D410XLT, but I usually only ran the 210.

IMHO a fairly dark sound can work well in a recording. But in a live setting, the bass tends to get darker and more diffuse as the sound travels over distance. In experience, it's very common for the lows to build up into a diffuse field that mask higher frequencies. Don't get me wrong. I find really fat lows to be highly desirable, but unfortunately (IMHO) most acoustic environments don't support using a really fat bass sound live. So long ago I adopted an approach using fairly lean lows.

I also tend to run a really bright sound on stage, but my technique is pretty clean and smooth, so I don't produce a lot of unintentional gank, grind, or fret rattle. Part of my smooth sound is also the contour I use. Although my sound is bright I prefer to put a bit of a dip in the 2-4K range, which is where most of the gank lies.

Of course anyone who happens to set up to close to me on stage may think my sound is overly bright and obnoxious (if not downright painful). I tend to wear ER15s which do darken the sound a bit. I run my amp bright enough to overcome the darkening induced by the ear plugs.

The higher frequencies coming from a cab tends to be more directional than low frequencies. By tilting the cab back, the high-mids shoot up at about a 30 degree angle towards my ears, rather than straight out towards the audience. Elevating the cab reduces the lows and also puts a notch in low mids. The frequency of the notch is determined by the height. Max cancellation occurs at frequency where the distance between the driver and floor equals 1/4 of a wavelength

By limiting the volume and amount of sub-bass produced by my stage rig, it fights less with the PA. This gives the audio tech more control over how the bass sounds to the audience.

 

[A9X]

When I think of something that "cuts" I think of something piercing, thin and sharp.

I don't at all, with 30+y of doing FOH, it means to me being clear in the mix with all the other instruments.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I agree with those that said that it depends on the frequency mixing of all the instruments. I do think that it is also very dependent on genre and song. That said, I also find that a lot of the character in a bass’ tone lies in the 800-1000 Hz range, and in many cases (but certainly not all) some boost in that range can sound quite nice and add some clarity to the bass in a mix.

During my first few years of playing, I firmly believed that the secret to cutting through a mix was simply owning a Warwick

I've always said that those who say a certain bass "sits well in the mix"are assuming that all mixes are the same.
A classic rock mix is not the same as a Metal mix is not the same as a Fusion mix is not the same as a Reggae mix........

 

[SC Bassboy]

Someone once asked if my rig could sound more like an SVT. I asked if he had a spare wet blanket.

I used to feel the same way until I had a chance to play one through something other than the normal SVT8X10. They sound pretty badass through a more modern cabinet design

 

[A9X]

^^ I was referring more to the cab.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

GK 800rb or 700rb
Overdrive pedal
Geddy Lee Jazz bass with Fat beams
1X15 Flite cab and 1 Flite 1x10 with 5” mid driver and tweeter horn.

That is my defined recipe

 

[drumvsbass]

Tone should be whatever I or other bassists want and you don’t get to decide that for anyone but yourself.

^^^This^^^