DI vs Mic, you really want a 57??? Really???

[SMASH]

Thanks. You've made some great points, as have others.

I get really tired of all the "soundman/guitarists/etc all suck" type threads. You did a good job of detailing some of the much more important things than bass tone that a soundman has to deal with.

 

[Jefenator]

IME it's usually "Whrilwind vs amp DI" so if they give a crap enough to offer a mic of any kind, well, at least that's a start!

 

[4-string]

I always take a quick listen from the room during soundcheck, just to be sure the sound isn't totally hopeless. Beyond that I focus on my playing, that is usually more than enough anyway.

I can't remember the last time I used a mic on a gig, but I have had very good results with a blend of mic and DI in the past. If a blend isn't possible, I'd take a DI over a mic.

 

[Krause]

I like to use much and mix them (mic and DI). But most of the venues here use sh#*y mics so I went out and bought my own. The Heil PR40 is the one that I use live plus DI. I also use it for recording. Love it. I would like to get a second one and mic both cabs.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[fokof]

The way I see it;
Mikes are audio sculpting tools , so I'll use certain mike if I need a certain sound.There are "sure shots" that we've learned over the years , and there are "trends".
Don't forget that "tone" is in fact EQ'ing. (generaly speaking)

Whatever microphone you're gonna put in front of anything is gonna change the tone. The mike , the snake (cheap isolation trannies can do big dammage to sound), the board, processing , power amp , and most important ;the PA are all gonna change the sound of that source , whatever the source. And don't forget the acoustics!

I use the 57 mainly as top snare and B57 under snare.
57's are also great if you want a 60's sound for vocals.
Lots of people use 'em on horns but I prefer ATM35 , in fact this one is good almost everywhere. (with a little high shelf)

For a bass cab , my "to go" mike is a ATM25.
For guitar cab , my fave is 409. I've got a pair of original ones

 

[JonathanD]

I agree, a 57 can do well with a cab. I should say that if you expect it to sound like your cab, it probably wont.

ATM 25, I have not used one on a bas cab, will try it out.
PR22? I have not used that either on a bass cab. I will have to try it.

Jonathan

 

[jaywa]

I would never put a 57 on my bass cabinet... and would have a real hard time trusting any sound guy who wanted to. But that's just me.

 

[Lincoln]

I'll take the line out of my amp -- It's an SWR and while a Country Man is good - it's one less step.

Also, most venues - clubs or bars in Cleveland aren't large enough to warrant miking or mixing anything other than the vocals unfortunately...

I guess I'll have to get popular enough for the larger venues...

 

[BigMac5]

How to Mic a Bass Speaker Cabinet

http://www.wikimusician.org/How_to_Mic_a_Bass_Speaker_Cabinet

Lots of info here with clips.

 

[kraigo]

A 57 is a 57. It works on snare drums and guitar amps. It does it very well.

On a bass amp? I figure you're usually trying to capture character with the mic and the character isn't in the low end. In the room the chances are that you have too much low end from the bass amp to deal with anyway, so having a mic that rolls off the lows would be desirable.

In a good number of situations a 57 might be just the ticket. Used in conjunction with a DI I can see why it would be used often.

FWIW, a kick drum mic (a colored mic like a D6, Beta 52, D-112, N/D868, etc.) would be a less desirable choice for me because the kick drum mic is going to have similar response and both instruments will end up competing for the same frequency ranges. A kick mic on the kick, and an RE-20 (or PR40 or 421 - more flat and hi-fi) on the cab would be a better choice.

KO

 

[JimmyM]

i find it hilarious that so many people say that your cab won't sound the same through the pa as your cab if you mic it. i suppose if you plain vanilla DI it'll sound MORE like your cab? I don't think so. a little secret...it will if your soundman actually listens to your amp and tries to duplicate it in the house. i don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

 

[agedhorse]

i find it hilarious that so many people say that your cab won't sound the same through the pa as your cab if you mic it. i suppose if you plain vanilla DI it'll sound MORE like your cab? I don't think so. a little secret...it will if your soundman actually listens to your amp and tries to duplicate it in the house. i don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

It will sound similar to your cabinet if you chose to listen to your cabinet with your ear 3" from the cone, but that's not what it sounds like once it interacts with the performance environment. It is a flavor though, and if taken in context may or may not be useful in the big picture.

You might find, for example, that if you were standing out at FOH playing bass, no PA involved, you may not like your tone but walking back to the stage you might really like it up there. You might like your tone out front solo, but as soon as the band starts playing it might get totally masked by the rest of the band and the acoustics of the room.

What I am trying to convey is that the bass, like EVERYTHING ELSE (some of you need to abandon the thought that only the poor bass player is getting sh*t on), must be taken in context with what it sounds like in the room, with audience in the room, not what it sounds like on stage. That's the sound guy's job, to accurately make this translation. Some do a great job and some have "challenges", but taking away options cripples the ability of those who really know what they are doing from working up to their ability.

 

[fokof]

Nicely explained.

I'm not good at vulgarising stuff.



English being my 2nd language.

 

[fokof]

i find it hilarious that so many people say that your cab won't sound the same through the pa as your cab if you mic it. i suppose if you plain vanilla DI it'll sound MORE like your cab? I don't think so. a little secret...it will if your soundman actually listens to your amp and tries to duplicate it in the house. i don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

A very simple exercise you can do , take any laptop computer and make a reading (FFF) of your amp where you stand , using SpectraFoo or SMAART , and do the same thing at the FOH position.
You'll see that it won't be the same thing , even if your soundman has the best intentions in the world.
Internal microphone will do the job ( It will be that much different)

 

[Rickett Customs]

I'd take an SM94 over any of them.

 

[JimmyM]

well i guess we could argue whether it sounds like your amp or not until the cows come home. bottom line, that's the sound i want. a speaker cab close miced. i personally think that when the soundman listens and tries to match it up, he's always successful. of course there are always mix considerations, and of course 3 inches away it sounds different than 3 feet away, but that's the sound i like.

 

[fokof]

... of course there are always mix considerations, and of course 3 inches away it sounds different than 3 feet away,....

 

[JimmyM]

don't even start with your out of context phrase splitting! i honestly don't think they sound that different at all when the soundman tries to duplicate it.

 

[Chowderboots]

I'd take an SM94 over any of them.

Mhmm. There are much better mics by Shure for bass than the SM57.

 

[kraigo]

Mhmm. There are much better mics by Shure for bass than the SM57.

There are. But a typical venue (at least in Minneapolis) will have exactly one kick drum mic (Beta 52, AKG D-112 or something similar) and a handful of Shure '57's and '58's. You're not going to get the kick drum mic.

KO