Did it ever occur to anyone - thinking Fender Bass evolution...

[Dlew919]

When you look at the development of the Fender solid body electric guitar...

1951 - Esquire
1952 - Telecaster
1954 - Stratocaster
1957 - Jazzmaster
1959 - Jag, or mustang... (I'm going from memory, all dates are approximate)

Whereas the solid body electric bass...
1951 - Precision
1960 - Jazz

Why so many guitar variants, and not so much the bass? I know he tweaks the P - the pickups change, and I think the bridge changes, etc... But given the difference between a Tele and a Strat, then a Strat and a Jazzmaster... why?

Several reasons, and it could be any of them, all of them, or some of them, or none of them, suggest themselves.

1) He got the P so right, there was very little to change. (This is supported by one of the fender people, who said the Jazz wasn't really a passion project)
2) There wasn't enough market for bass (This is supported by the length of time it took the bass to become a 'respectable instrument'. It's not til the early 60s that the bass becomes ubiquitous, and it had competition from Gibson, Gretsch, Danelectro, etc ....
3) Leo and the crew didn't care much about the bass as a product, so didn't want to spend resources on developing it.
4) Being more expensive (more materials) it was uneconomic to change very much

I've looked through several histories, but there's no real reasons given.

Did I miss something? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

When you look at the development of the Fender solid body electric guitar...

1951 - Esquire
1952 - Telecaster
1954 - Stratocaster
1957 - Jazzmaster
1959 - Jag, or mustang... (I'm going from memory, all dates are approximate)

Whereas the solid body electric bass...
1951 - Precision
1960 - Jazz

Why so many guitar variants, and not so much the bass? I know he tweaks the P - the pickups change, and I think the bridge changes, etc... But given the difference between a Tele and a Strat, then a Strat and a Jazzmaster... why?

Several reasons, and it could be any of them, all of them, or some of them, or none of them, suggest themselves.

1) He got the P so right, there was very little to change. (This is supported by one of the fender people, who said the Jazz wasn't really a passion project)
2) There wasn't enough market for bass (This is supported by the length of time it took the bass to become a 'respectable instrument'. It's not til the early 60s that the bass becomes ubiquitous, and it had competition from Gibson, Gretsch, Danelectro, etc ....
3) Leo and the crew didn't care much about the bass as a product, so didn't want to spend resources on developing it.
4) Being more expensive (more materials) it was uneconomic to change very much

I've looked through several histories, but there's no real reasons given.

Did I miss something? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

You are overlooking the StingRay and G&L.

 

[Dlew919]

You are overlooking the StingRay and G&L.

Acknowledged. I missed lots of things, mainly for space and coherence. But thanks. These are important too.

 

[Heiwa]

I hope they bring back the Dimension. And they had weird stuff like the Prophecy II and the Performer

 

[poppunk]

Strats added over the Telecaster three pickups in a different configuration, ergonomic improvements, and vibratos.

Per it's name, the Jazzmaster was a more niche guitar meant for jazz guitarists. Less pickups but a very different vibrato system and a lot of switching/seperate circuits. The Jaguar was a short scale version of the Jazzmaster. Both of these ended up being more surf guitars than anything.

The Mustang was a short scale that was designed to replace the Duo Sonic and Bronco as a student guitar. It's important to note that the Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Mustang went out of production for a long time and were just stuff people didn't want for the most part. Kurt Cobain gets the most credit for bringing them back into the fold as popular, with other indie/grunge types really leading the surge. They make them all again.

The difference between a Precision and Jazz bass is pickup configuration, nut width, and ergonomics.

I wasn't alive back in the day, but I assume guitars were way more popular than bass, so there was a lot more market to be gained. And a lot of electric guitar players seemed to play with double bass players for the longest time, not electric.

 

[poppunk]

Also, it's important to note other Fender basses were a thing but didn't stick for whatever reason like the Bass V, Bass VI, and Telecaster.

 

[JimmyM]

2 is probably the most correct answer.

 

[ardgedee]

2) There wasn't enough market for bass (This is supported by the length of time it took the bass to become a 'respectable instrument'. It's not til the early 60s that the bass becomes ubiquitous, and it had competition from Gibson, Gretsch, Danelectro, etc ....

In our current year, guitars outsell basses something like ten to one. It's why some guitar companies only make a token effort at best in making basses. That ratio was probably even more lopsided in the early 60s.

 

[Grinderman]

Also, it's important to note other Fender basses were a thing but didn't stick for whatever reason like the Bass V, Bass VI, and Telecaster.

In terms of big yearly production numbers, no.

Considering the production years (1961–1975, 1995–1998, 2006–2008, 2013–present), that seems fairly stuck to me.

Former mid-'90s MIJ Bass VI owner here. I wish I still had that one.

 

[brianrost]

Whereas the solid body electric bass...
1951 - Precision
1960 - Jazz

Did I miss something?

1961 - Bass VI (borrowing from the Jaguar guitar)
1965 - Bass V

Of course, after Leo left Fender, he kept going.

1976 - MM StingRay
1979 - G&L L-1000 and L-2000

While both MM and G&L have always made guitars, it’s the basses that bring home the bacon.

Gibson (1953), Danelectro (1956), Kay (1952), Hofner (1955) and Rickenbacker (1956) were all making basses in the 1950s.

P.S. I don’t consider the Telecaster bass as something unique. The first ones were essentially reissues of the 50s P, and later models using an actual Tele body or different pickups were hardly major design changes.

 

[RhinoBass]

Some combination of 2 and 3.

 

[Grinderman]

Bass players might be a protected minority group but hardly anyone notices bass players, let alone understands what we do, where the sounds we make are coming from, and where the sounds are in the mix.

Broadly speaking bass players are kind of like gods; ubiquitous, thunderous, and often in plain sight but somehow at the same time largely unrecognized as though we're invisible.

Unless you're Bootsy.

 

[gln1955]

Outside of TB, most bass players just want a bass that works, like a P or J. Guitarists are much more likely to buy more guitars, especially if a new model is available.

 

[Killing Floor]

A Tele and an Esquire are the same guitar. As in Exactly the same. Even true branded Esquires can come with 2 pickups. So it comes down to whether you (Fender or Fender enthusiast) consider a tone bypass option to qualify as a complete model of guitar.
Glad that’s clear now.

As far as the premise of fewer major model basses than guitars…
You personally know about 100 people who play/have played/ own a guitar. You personally don’t know more than 1 other bass player.

If I was a marketing product manager at Fender (or Gibson or Yamaha or Ibanez…) and I wanted to get fired I’d spend all my time and resources developing basses instead of guitars.

 

[bassdude51]

I don't know the official ratio. perhaps for every 20 guitars sold, only one bass.

So, I'd say #2 reason. Market interest and it took nearly 10 years, from 1951 to the late 50s for the Fender Bass to be an accepted instrument. IMO

 

[Relsom]

Don't forget that Fender put their name on Kubicki ExFactors for a couple of years. You can't get more evolutionary than that.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

Why so many guitar variants, and not so much the bass?

Look at the time period you're referring to...
It's difficult now for some to understand the historical context at the time;
the bass "guitar" - electric or not, did not exist before 1951*, and it certainly was not widely accepted at that point (1950s).
Further; it's full potential couldn't be realized due to limitations of the amplification for the bass.
That eventually changed over time, with advances in recording technology in the 60s, and a big change in amplification by the 70s.
Peoples reference for Bass in the '50s was the upright - that's what they thought the "bass" should sound like.
The Precision did what it needed to do (and still does) where as the guitar / electric guitar had already been continuously evolving for decades.

(* yes, Tutmarc, that a total of five people had heard of prior to 1980)

 

[chadds]

The '51 through mid '56 single coil P is a distinct bass from the '56 - split coil P. So many differences. Need to add to the list.

 

[oldskoolskatedad]

I also would think that the market/interest in guitar over bass during that time period is the main reason. It does occur to me that this may be due in part to the amplification of, or lack of, the time period. The Bassman amps were in many regards guitar amps in both voicing and power until the 1969 Super Bassman II. That being said, when Leo got back in the game in the late 70's he continued to evolve the bass world with the Stingray and a few years later with the L-1000 & L-2000.

 

[DJ Bebop]

In our current year, guitars outsell basses something like ten to one. It's why some guitar companies only make a token effort at best in making basses. That ratio was probably even more lopsided in the early 60s.

Yeah, bass was something that was played by the last guitar player who joined the band and they already had two guitarist.