Did it ever occur to anyone - thinking Fender Bass evolution...

[Element Zero]

Simply put, guitar was cool. Bass was not.

 

[bigjames]

2 is probably the most correct answer.

Agreed. I think the same. I think demand and number of players will drive innovation.

 

[SoulReflection]

I assume guitars were way more popular than bass

That's my "guess"...

 

[Iridescentone]

TLDR all the posts, but in case it hasn't been mentioned....the ratio of six string guitar players to bass players has traditionally been ~ 10/1. I'm surprised we have as much variety available, as it is.

 

[buldog5151bass]

A lot more guitarists than bassists.

Strat and Tele are probably 95% of Fender guitar sales.

The Esquire is basically a Neanderthal Tele.

There were other Fender basses- Dimension, Starcaster, Telecaster. Again, the top 2 probably account for well over 95% of basses sold.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Strats added over the Telecaster three pickups in a different configuration, ergonomic improvements, and vibratos.

Per it's name, the Jazzmaster was a more niche guitar meant for jazz guitarists. Less pickups but a very different vibrato system and a lot of switching/seperate circuits. The Jaguar was a short scale version of the Jazzmaster. Both of these ended up being more surf guitars than anything.

The Mustang was a short scale that was designed to replace the Duo Sonic and Bronco as a student guitar. It's important to note that the Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Mustang went out of production for a long time and were just stuff people didn't want for the most part. Kurt Cobain gets the most credit for bringing them back into the fold as popular, with other indie/grunge types really leading the surge. They make them all again.

The difference between a Precision and Jazz bass is pickup configuration, nut width, and ergonomics.

I wasn't alive back in the day, but I assume guitars were way more popular than bass, so there was a lot more market to be gained. And a lot of electric guitar players seemed to play with double bass players for the longest time, not electric.

Good post. I was around back in the the day. With guitars there is acceptance for way more tonal variance than a bass which was one of the reasons for the lack of choices as opposed to guitars. Another is basses were cheaper to make.

Back in the 50’s and 60’s, if you heard an electric bass on a song, it was either a Fender, or the engineer tried to make whatever it was sound like a Fender. Also at the time, when you were buying Orchestral charts that called for an electric bass as opposed to a DB, on the bass chart it said Fender Bass.

I think over the years we have been conditioned to that sound being the definitive electric bass sound. At least I know I have been conditioned. That said, today Fender is hardly the only useable electric bass sound. So many choices today and all of them sound good with few exceptions.

 

[Bass Motifs]

Similar thing happened when the violin family was standardized about 1600. Violins = guitars, lots of them, get the tune and treble rhythm parts. Cello = bass, drives the music but bigger and far fewer players. So no change expected for another few hundred years?

 

[DirkP]

TLDR all the posts, but in case it hasn't been mentioned....the ratio of six string guitar players to bass players has traditionally been ~ 10/1. I'm surprised we have as much variety available, as it is.

The sales statistic I quoted above says 1:3 (electric basses sold in relation to electric guitars). About 500 million cs. 1.500 million in sales in 2022.

 

[ole Jason]

Guitar more popular than bass.

 

[SoulReflection]

The sales statistic I quoted above says 1:3 (electric basses sold in relation to electric guitars). About 500 million cs. 1.500 million in sales in 2022.

Now that we know the ratio of guitars to basses, how about drum sets? Only then will we know how much trouble us bassists are in for.

 

[MVE]

You have other Fender Models:

Mustang
Musicmaster
Jaguar
Dimension
Meteora
Starcaster
Coronado
Urge
Aerodyne
Bullet
Zone
Performer

Bass VI
Precision Special
Elite Precision Bass
Lyte
Jazz Power Special
Prophecy
Telecaster Bass

They make whatever they think might sell…. Its as simple as that.

 

[micguy]

When you sell 2 basic products lines, and one sells 20 time what the other one does, you invest a lot of time and effort in making sure that the higher selling line is in good shape - the other one gets leftover time, or you let the new guy work on that. Yes, I speak from experience. There's no real reason to do a big investigation on this one, it's obvious to anyone who's worked in any company with multiple product lines to tend to.

If there's a question at all, it's why the bass got as much attention as it did.

 

[Pirate Captain]

The Jaguar was a short scale version of the Jazzmaster. Both of these ended up being more surf guitars than anything.

Shoegaze has entered the chat

 

[micguy]

It is tough to find numbers, because most sale statistics put guitars and basses together.

I only found one:

„Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars
Global Sales Overview
In 2022, the electric guitar market size was valued at $1.5 billion, with a projected growth rate of 3.5% CAGR for the next five years. In contrast, the bass guitar market stood at around $550 million with a slightly lower growth rate.“

Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars

So, if it’s correct, the relation is about 3:1


Your thoughts?

I wouldn't trust that source. I don't know the exact ratio, but it's higher than 3:1 - much higher. Watch the online Fender and Gibson factory tour videos, and note how many basses you see on the factory floor. Watch the PRS videos as well - not a bass to be seen, (they do make a couple models). Go into GC, and count the guitars on the wall, then count the basses (if you can find them). Let me know if you find a ratio as low as 10 to 1 anywhere. 3 to 1 is absurd.

Reverb has 193,000 listings for electric guitars. 3 to 1 would imply about 65,000 bass guitar listings. There are 11,300 - the ratio is about 17.5 to 1. Not 3 to 1, not even close.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Reverb currently has 192,783 guitars for sale and 43,837 basses for sale. That's roughly 5:1.

 

[Panek]

When you look at the development of the Fender solid body electric guitar...

1951 - Esquire
1952 - Telecaster
1954 - Stratocaster
1957 - Jazzmaster
1959 - Jag, or mustang... (I'm going from memory, all dates are approximate)

Whereas the solid body electric bass...
1951 - Precision
1960 - Jazz

Why so many guitar variants, and not so much the bass? I know he tweaks the P - the pickups change, and I think the bridge changes, etc... But given the difference between a Tele and a Strat, then a Strat and a Jazzmaster... why?

Several reasons, and it could be any of them, all of them, or some of them, or none of them, suggest themselves.

1) He got the P so right, there was very little to change. (This is supported by one of the fender people, who said the Jazz wasn't really a passion project)
2) There wasn't enough market for bass (This is supported by the length of time it took the bass to become a 'respectable instrument'. It's not til the early 60s that the bass becomes ubiquitous, and it had competition from Gibson, Gretsch, Danelectro, etc ....
3) Leo and the crew didn't care much about the bass as a product, so didn't want to spend resources on developing it.
4) Being more expensive (more materials) it was uneconomic to change very much

I've looked through several histories, but there's no real reasons given.

Did I miss something? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

Popularity of the guitar over bass and market demand. That's it.

 

[DirkP]

I wouldn't trust that source. I don't know the exact ratio, but it's higher than 3:1 - much higher. Watch the online Fender and Gibson factory tour videos, and note how many basses you see on the factory floor. Watch the PRS videos as well - not a bass to be seen, (they do make a couple models). Go into GC, and count the guitars on the wall, then count the basses (if you can find them). Let me know if you find a ratio as low as 10 to 1 anywhere. 3 to 1 is absurd.

Reverb has 193,000 listings for electric guitars. 3 to 1 would imply about 65,000 bass guitar listings. There are 11,300 - the ratio is about 17.5 to 1. Not 3 to 1, not even close.

In Berlins largest music-store, JustMusic, the ratio - if we only count electric instruments - might be about 1:3 or 1:4. But your Reverb numbers sound convincing. Although another poster mentioned that the relation considering Reverb sales is rather 1:5. This fits my impressions.

Another fact to consider: many beginners start with a guitar and - according to an interview with a Fender manager I have read decades ago - most of these instruments end in the basement.

I guess the guitar-bass ratio, if we only consider those, who became serious musicians and play in bands is rather between 1:3 and 1:5.

 

[Jack Butler]

The '51 through mid '56 single coil P is a distinct bass from the '56 - split coil P. So many differences. Need to add to the list.

agree, a different beast for sure even though they share a name.

I see it as:
Early 50's Precision
Late 50's Precision (different bass than early 50's)
Jazz

guitar
esquire/tele
strat
other niche designs (Jazzmaster/Jaguar.Mustang)

 

[J Posega]

Because other people picked up on what Leo started and did it better.

 

[micguy]

Reverb currently has 192,783 guitars for sale and 43,837 basses for sale. That's roughly 5:1.

Those numbers are biased - it depends on how your search as to what you get.

If you search "electric bass guitars" and "electric guitars", you get 193K and 11 K guitars and basses.

If you search "guitar" and "bass guitar" (a lot of acoustics involved), you do get 44K bases, and you get 660 K guitars. So, somewhere between 15 (including acoustics) and 17.5 to 1(just electrics)