Read post 60 (above) - the comparison that brought 5:1 to the discussion was comparing apples and oranges.
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Did it ever occur to anyone - thinking Fender Bass evolution...
- Thread starter Dlew919
- Start date
Read post 60 (above) - the comparison that brought 5:1 to the discussion was comparing apples and oranges.
In sales it seems to be - unlike the statistics I quoted - rather 1:10, if we find an Ashdown distributer trustworthy
Ratio of Guitarists to Bassists?
But I am still convinced, the ratio of musicians who really learned an instrument and became real players is rather 1:3 to 1:5.
Most of the guitars end in a basement. If you buy a bass, the chance is higher that you’re serious about it, esp. if you started with guitar. And: how many bass players just bought a bass and never a guitar? Far more than guitarists buying basses, although they exist.
Ratio of Guitarists to Bassists?
But I am still convinced, the ratio of musicians who really learned an instrument and became real players is rather 1:3 to 1:5.
Most of the guitars end in a basement. If you buy a bass, the chance is higher that you’re serious about it, esp. if you started with guitar. And: how many bass players just bought a bass and never a guitar? Far more than guitarists buying basses, although they exist.
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One could argue that things went downhill with the Jazzmaster/Jaguar. Both are severely flawed instruments (basically the poor break angle over the saddles). Of course some people like these guitars in spite of their quirks but as far a GOOD guitar designs go Fender peaked with the Tele and the Strat. Just like they peaked with the classic, passive Precision and Jazz basses (depending on taste). Which means they've created two GOOD classic guitar models and two GOOD classic bass models. The rest of their history has consisted of either more or less failed attempts at releasing new designs or more or less failed attempts at "upgrading" their classics. And today other manufacturers make better Ps and Js than Fender. Go figure.
Also don't forget, Leo Fender DID design basses for other brands after he left Fender. Whether they are an improvement over his most iconic designs will be a matter of taste.
Also don't forget, Leo Fender DID design basses for other brands after he left Fender. Whether they are an improvement over his most iconic designs will be a matter of taste.
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I disagree. They are flawed designs that at a minimum need the necks to be shimmed, unless you like that characteristic thin, jangly tone you get from a very poor break angle over the saddles (and never do any bending). Some people like them of course but they are very poorly designed guitars. Guitars with a bridge/tailpiece like that needs the neck to be angled backwards from the body.
They can sound cool for certain styles of music but they are NOT great designs. Except for the looks of course, they are definitely the coolest looking guitars Fender has ever released.
That's a 1:3 ratio in dollar revenues, not in units sold. Just sayin'. Could be some difference in unit prices makes the ratio of units sold different than 1:3. We bassists do have better taste in instruments....
I'm not a Fender expert but I think they've made a few more models.
Pretty sure they make one called the Jaguar.
No problem...not a Jaguar owner but I still regret not buying a mint Japanese one a few years ago for a price I'll never see again.
Shimming is just a part of the setup. It's a feature, not a bug.
I love my Jaguar, and have never had an issue. But yes, I shimmed it.
Would it make you feel better if Leo had renamed the Precision every time the body style and headstock style changed? Also, does the Dimension or Jaguar or Mustang not count as a bass?
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I've bought a few basses but never an electric guitar. Only reason I have one at all is I had arrived at a yard sale while it was packing up and the seller literally shoved a Tiesco in my hands and told me to enjoy it.
+
Fender Jaguar Bass
Fender Mustang Bass
Fender Bullet Bass
Fender Bass IV
Fender Meteora
Fender Telecaster bass
Fender Musicmaster bass
Dude, if the whole point of your OP is that ~Fender only made a couple of models of basses and what would be the reason for that?~, then "skipp[ing] a whole bunch" of models "just to get to the point faster" seems like a colossally dumb thing to do.
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Historically, in the late 40's and 50's, solid body instruments were a new thing in the wake of the collapse of the big bands and the rule of the archtops, considered the 'real' electric guitars of their day: The Strombergs, Epi's, the L5 and Super 400 Gibsons, the D'Angelico's, these were the kings of the guitar business.
The Les Paul was a big departure for Gibson, and then Leo Fender's pragmatic, screw-together guitars (and basses) were a huge sea change. And until Leo Fender, guitar and fledgling bass amps had been these tiny little boxes like GA Gibsons or the little amps Ric made for the 'frying pan' guitars.
The Fender basses (and the early EB Gibsons) were extra business on the side to pump up the guitar and amp business, now you could sell an amp for bass guitar along with the far bigger guitar amp line. There was no thought at all that you were loosing a brand new instrument out into the world. You could build basses on the same assembly lines with the same woods and processes, and that was the deal. All the major guitar companies that got into the bass business viewed them as extra revenue without a huge cash investment since they were s related to electric guitars.
The Precision was Leo's attempt to have a LOUD bass instrument that met the above criteria, far more simple to play in tune, and could keep up on a stage with a Tele and steel guitar and drums. The Jazz was to be the bass counterpart for a 'deluxe' bass as the Strat was to the Tele.
Only Fender's compulsions to improve and engineer led to the contour body and split pickups, then later re-engineering the PBass into the StingRay and later still the L1000 G+L.
Fender 'Evolution' is self-limited by history and their customers.
Today's Fender (and to an extent EBMM and G+L) are still behind the 8-Ball of having to tweak these designs endlessly under the regime of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. There's no doubt they have the talent internally or could subcontract for new designs to outside designers, but their market will routinely NOT buy large steps away from the legacy products in volume that makes them willing to roll the dice. Ultimately this is why great axes like the Roscoe Becks, the Dimensions, the PB Lytes, the 24-fret JB's came and went: In the face of the demand for their legacy models, they didn't sell in numbers that were sustainable.
Every day or two, the NBD post from this or that guy is his brand new . . . . . Precision Bass. Essentially the same bass their dad and maybe even their grand dad played. Yawn . . . . . whaddya gonna do?
The Les Paul was a big departure for Gibson, and then Leo Fender's pragmatic, screw-together guitars (and basses) were a huge sea change. And until Leo Fender, guitar and fledgling bass amps had been these tiny little boxes like GA Gibsons or the little amps Ric made for the 'frying pan' guitars.
The Fender basses (and the early EB Gibsons) were extra business on the side to pump up the guitar and amp business, now you could sell an amp for bass guitar along with the far bigger guitar amp line. There was no thought at all that you were loosing a brand new instrument out into the world. You could build basses on the same assembly lines with the same woods and processes, and that was the deal. All the major guitar companies that got into the bass business viewed them as extra revenue without a huge cash investment since they were s related to electric guitars.
The Precision was Leo's attempt to have a LOUD bass instrument that met the above criteria, far more simple to play in tune, and could keep up on a stage with a Tele and steel guitar and drums. The Jazz was to be the bass counterpart for a 'deluxe' bass as the Strat was to the Tele.
Only Fender's compulsions to improve and engineer led to the contour body and split pickups, then later re-engineering the PBass into the StingRay and later still the L1000 G+L.
Fender 'Evolution' is self-limited by history and their customers.
Today's Fender (and to an extent EBMM and G+L) are still behind the 8-Ball of having to tweak these designs endlessly under the regime of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. There's no doubt they have the talent internally or could subcontract for new designs to outside designers, but their market will routinely NOT buy large steps away from the legacy products in volume that makes them willing to roll the dice. Ultimately this is why great axes like the Roscoe Becks, the Dimensions, the PB Lytes, the 24-fret JB's came and went: In the face of the demand for their legacy models, they didn't sell in numbers that were sustainable.
Every day or two, the NBD post from this or that guy is his brand new . . . . . Precision Bass. Essentially the same bass their dad and maybe even their grand dad played. Yawn . . . . . whaddya gonna do?
While the first P basses were a game changer, they didn't gain wide acceptance right away.
By the time electric basses became widely accepted, the P was pretty much the standard because there was not a lot else out there.
Once that happened, it was not a good idea to make any major changes to a product that was selling well and more or less considered the standard by which all other basses were judged.
To a large extent, that is still the case today.
Sure Fender and others have come up with other designs, some of them damn good, but they haven't ever sold in the same numbers as the original standard.
By the time electric basses became widely accepted, the P was pretty much the standard because there was not a lot else out there.
Once that happened, it was not a good idea to make any major changes to a product that was selling well and more or less considered the standard by which all other basses were judged.
To a large extent, that is still the case today.
Sure Fender and others have come up with other designs, some of them damn good, but they haven't ever sold in the same numbers as the original standard.
