Did it ever occur to anyone - thinking Fender Bass evolution...

[Bass Motifs]

A few more thoughts.

If you include both acoustic and electric instruments the guitar/bass ratio stretches out even further.

Bigger string instruments have more tension, and it's harder to cut corners with cheap models. Same with cellos. We're pretty well served with the quality of vintage basses relative to the wide world of guitar junk out there.

Lots of guitar varieties because the treble register invites more sonic variation. Think of an orchestra. Guitars are the icing, but bass is the cake!

 

[Malak the Mad]

Today's Fender (and to an extent EBMM and G+L) are still behind the 8-Ball of having to tweak these designs endlessly under the regime of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. There's no doubt they have the talent internally or could subcontract for new designs to outside designers, but their market will routinely NOT buy large steps away from the legacy products in volume that makes them willing to roll the dice. Ultimately this is why great axes like the Roscoe Becks, the Dimensions, the PB Lytes, the 24-fret JB's came and went: In the face of the demand for their legacy models, they didn't sell in numbers that were sustainable.

Every day or two, the NBD post from this or that guy is his brand new . . . . . Precision Bass. Essentially the same bass their dad and maybe even their grand dad played. Yawn . . . . . whaddya gonna do?

<Looks over at his Fender Blacktop Jazz>
Well, ya ain't wrong!

Call me a divergent...or "deviant" or whatever ...but, it's the models with either a cool, new take on the original themes OR something unexpected that issues from the makers of "expected" models that catches my eye. Sure, I'm in the minority, but that's fine. I'll just keep tinkering away at my "weirdo basses" and see what shakes loose. Fortunately, there are a small number of "weirdos" that sell well enough to keep coming from places like FMIC. (I'm lookin' at you, Aerodynes! Keep up the weird work! )

 

[BazzaBass]

People assumes this was the result of evolution rather than just a marketing necessity. Unfortunately we’ll never know.

 

[Basvarken]

Whereas the solid body electric bass...
1951 - Precision
1960 - Jazz

What about the Telecaster bass, the Starcaster, the Mustang, the VI?
All very different to a P or J.

 

[C0YS]

And…that’s it. The Fender co. has not designed a significantly advanced guitar or bass since.

The older I get the more I happen to agree with the sentiment of how much more do you really need in some aspects of life. How much more do you really need if you have a good Precision or Jazz Bass? I don't know how far Fender really needs to stray from the basic designs of both. Both cover plenty of ground and cut through most any mix.

 

[iTzPrime]

Rather than the amount of models, it rather has to do how the instruments are used.
The bass is nearly always a supporting instrument, that has a defined frequency range on where to sit. It should be hearable, but not overshadow the vocals.
In contrast the guitar has several roles. It could be used as rhythm guitar, as counter melody to the vocals - or even be the lead.

As a result, more guitar models get used in contrast to bass. The bass models less used then fall into obscurity after a while.

 

[GodsLove66]

Imagine holding a 40" scale horizontally on a small stage lol!

Chris Squire did! Lol

 

[2F/2F]

The older I get the more I happen to agree with the sentiment of how much more do you really need in some aspects of life. How much more do you really need if you have a good Precision or Jazz Bass? I don't know how far Fender really needs to stray from the basic designs of both. Both cover plenty of ground and cut through most any mix.

I didn’t criticize what they’ve done. I simply described it.

I can do what I need to do with my Musicmaster Bass, which I’ve been playing for 35 years. I appreciate that Fender has stuck with classic formulas, and I have owned many of their products. I don’t think the instrument needs to be “advanced” technologically.

I also enjoy other bass technologies, and have owned more than my fair share of them – though nothing beyond onboard three band active electronics. But like I said, I certainly don’t need them in order to accomplish what I need to accomplish on the instrument.

So, when I said that Fender hasn’t developed any guitar technology of note in over 50 years, it wasn’t a complaint. If anything, it was a statement of respect. Despite some silly products, poor decisions, and periods of mediocre-to-poor build quality over the years, they’ve never really altered the backbone and f their product line – and I like that about them. If I wanted something different than a classic Fender, I’d simply get it from a different brand.

 

[ewe2]

Rather than the amount of models, it rather has to do how the instruments are used.
The bass is nearly always a supporting instrument, that has a defined frequency range on where to sit. It should be hearable, but not overshadow the vocals.
In contrast the guitar has several roles. It could be used as rhythm guitar, as counter melody to the vocals - or even be the lead.

As a result, more guitar models get used in contrast to bass. The bass models less used then fall into obscurity after a while.

I'm not sure what's funnier, the idea that bass can't be used for counter melody or lead or that the post is immediately followed by one about Chris Squire! (psst don't tell them about McCartney or Jamerson ok).

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Shimming is just a part of the setup. It's a feature, not a bug.

I love my Jaguar, and have never had an issue. But yes, I shimmed it.

Yeah, I guess you could argue that shimming is part of a setup. But if shimming it necessary for ALL Jazzmasters/Jaguars to work properly I still think it's a design flaw rather than a setup issue.

And shimming will only help slightly with ONE of the main issues with these guitars. To make a JM/Jag acceptable for MOST guitar players you will need either a new bridge/trem (like a Mastery) or a Buzz Stop. Or both...

Of course, some guitar players love 100% stock JMs/Jags for that loose feel and jangly tone. But I also get the impression that for many JM/Jag players the looks (or the fact that their idol played one) is more important that the quality of the guitar. And JMs/Jags DO look cool. I'll give'em that!

 

[JimmyM]

What about the Telecaster bass, the Starcaster, the Mustang, the VI?
All very different to a P or J.

He’s only talking about 50 to 60.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not sure what's funnier, the idea that bass can't be used for counter melody or lead or that the post is immediately followed by one about Chris Squire! (psst don't tell them about McCartney or Jamerson ok).

He didn’t say you couldn’t do that with them. You can do anything you want with them. He’s not wrong, though. Most of the time, it’s support.

 

[Nunovsky]

Honestly, I don't see this as a problem but simply as an effect of what sells.
If you check other brands, it's not that diferent.
For example, EB Musicman also has limited bass models available compared to what their guitar offer.
It's just a matter of adapting the offer to the market.

 

[ardgedee]

Where are you getting 660k guitars? This is what I see on reverb

View attachment 5265298

Go to Reverb, type "guitars" in the search, and you get a list - "all categories" of guitars is 658K, Electric guitars is 193K - how it's presented varies a bit by what browser you use.

"All Categories" includes everything guitar-related: effects, amps, cables, parts, strings, tools, teeshirts and so on. The same is true of basses: "All Categories" includes effects, amps, cables, etc. and many of those accessories are listed in searches for both basses and guitars.

The two of you might be seeing different results in part because Reverb buries the "All Categories" search results within a submenu on phones or tablets but on desktop browsers is visible without clicking anything.

Although honestly this is a weird argument to have since neither position refutes something everybody agrees on: That a significant multiple of guitars are sold for every bass. Finding the exact ratio doesn't seem necessary since the lowest ratio supported by evidence is 3:1 and that's still pretty stark.

 

[Nebadon2000]

In our current year, guitars outsell basses something like ten to one. It's why some guitar companies only make a token effort at best in making basses. That ratio was probably even more lopsided in the early 60s.

I would guess Ratio is much higher than 10-1; except for on TB Guitar equipment is overwhelming Dominant

 

[Lance Bunyon]

"The Bass Revolution will not be televised...it will be a Pay-Per-View event with pro wrestling and glitter..."

 

[poppunk]

Shoegaze has entered the chat

Which lines up with that whole grunge/alternative/indie rock timeline; but when these guitars came out in the 50s/60s they were heavily used for surf. It's crazy how a 10-15 years after Fender stopped making those guitars that they became desirable again.

Jaguars have had ups and downs but they're reasonably niche, likely because they're short scale. The Jazzmaster has been a lot more popular in recent years; I've seen them being used in a lot of bands.

 

[iTzPrime]

I'm not sure what's funnier, the idea that bass can't be used for counter melody or lead or that the post is immediately followed by one about Chris Squire! (psst don't tell them about McCartney or Jamerson ok).

Of course bass can be counter melody or lead, but the frequency and sonic range in which it has space is a lot narrower.
Look what Jamerson played. He stayed in his frequency range, and his bass sound is extremely narrow - and actually underlines my point, that the bass guitar is in its sonic box - and not like guitar in different sonic spectrums.

He didn’t say you couldn’t do that with them. You can do anything you want with them. He’s not wrong, though. Most of the time, it’s support.

Also listen to the McCartney or Jamerson bass sound. That is an argument in favor of what I said, not in contrast.

 

[HP Hovercraft]

Yeah, I guess you could argue that shimming is part of a setup. But if shimming it necessary for ALL Jazzmasters/Jaguars to work properly I still think it's a design flaw rather than a setup issue.

And shimming will only help slightly with ONE of the main issues with these guitars. To make a JM/Jag acceptable for MOST guitar players you will need either a new bridge/trem (like a Mastery) or a Buzz Stop. Or both...

Of course, some guitar players love 100% stock JMs/Jags for that loose feel and jangly tone. But I also get the impression that for many JM/Jag players the looks (or the fact that their idol played one) is more important that the quality of the guitar. And JMs/Jags DO look cool. I'll give'em that!

Yeah, lots of people buy it for looks and lots of people want to turn them into guitars that they're not. And some misguided folks like to put nines on them. They have their quirks but thankfully I like the sound (and looks, natch) and wouldn't change a thing. I personally see no need for a Mastery and definitely not a buzz stop. A floating bridge is a necessity IMO.

 

[ewe2]

Of course bass can be counter melody or lead, but the frequency and sonic range in which it has space is a lot narrower.

But you left it at "support", I wasn't interested in any argument about sonic range, that's so obvious I don't understand why you keep hammering it. My point in response perhaps tongue in cheek was that bass can do these things simultaneously with a role in support. You're free to disagree, that's how I think of bass. I don't see it relegated to "support". I can see that guitar's popularity goes beyond a band context and for a lot of bass people it does not, but I wanted to point out there are contexts where the bass does, and there is a market beyond Fender for that, maybe just not as big for guitars.