Did it ever occur to anyone - thinking Fender Bass evolution...

[HP Hovercraft]

Bass players might be a protected minority group but hardly anyone notices bass players, let alone understands what we do, where the sounds we make are coming from, and where the sounds are in the mix.

Broadly speaking bass players are kind of like gods; ubiquitous, thunderous, and often in plain sight but somehow at the same time largely unrecognized as though we're invisible.

I remember going to see some friends play and on one of the songs the intro is just a single bass note going in and out with a volume pedal. The guy next to me asked "who's doing that?" and there was literally only one person on stage playing anything.

 

[Grinderman]

I remember going to see some friends play and on one of the songs the intro is just a single bass note going in and out with a volume pedal. The guy next to me asked "who's doing that?" and there was literally only one person on stage playing anything.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

To me the amazing thing is how the very 1st Fender electrics still are excellent designs including amplifiers..... except for bass amplifiers but mainly speakers were the limiting factor for bass.

It took awhile for speaker companies to figure out speakers for bass amps even though the 4x10 Bassman may be the best overall design ever conceived, the weak point was the Jensen speakers with their Kraft paper formers....JBL changed things drastically.

Fender nailed bolt neck guitars right off....of course Martin and Gibson nailed other guitar design even earlier.

I still dont think there is a better overall bass than the 1st P bass...its simple and efficient in design, it has 1 pickup (i love Gibson basses btw as well) and with modern bass amplifiers with extensive EQ, solid state rectifiers and multiple speakers (SVT) the bass world came into its own...a lot of excellent tones are available with the 1st P bass...my 2 cents.

 

[Spectrum]

Why so many guitar variants, and not so much the bass?

Because bass is boring and only failed guitarists will play a bass guitar, and chicks dig guitar players.

Don't @ me, I'm just telling you what a large portion of the public thinks, or at least did when I was growing up.

 

[datasmog]

From the beginning Fender’s main rival in electric guitars was the Gibson Les Paul which had a bigger range of sounds than the Telecaster. Hence the 3 pickup Stratocaster with a tremolo to compete with the Bigsby on the Les Paul. Gibson also had other electric guitars to compete with, and other guitar manufacturers as well. So continuing the evolution of the guitar was essential. But realistically there was no real competition for the two Fender basses which had become the accepted standard in studios. No point wasting resources trying to improve them when he could sell every single 6 string electric guitar he could make. Of course things have changed over the years with many options for the bass player to choose from now. But the Fender bass is still pretty good for its age.

 

[DirkP]

It is tough to find numbers, because most sale statistics put guitars and basses together.

I only found one:

„Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars
Global Sales Overview
In 2022, the electric guitar market size was valued at $1.5 billion, with a projected growth rate of 3.5% CAGR for the next five years. In contrast, the bass guitar market stood at around $550 million with a slightly lower growth rate.“

Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars

So, if it’s correct, the relation is about 3:1

Important: these numbers are for electric instruments. In former years more acoustic guitars than electric guitars were sold. During the last years the electric guitars sold outnumber the acoustic ones. It is evident to me, that few people are interested in acoustic basses.

I am not the one to interpret these numbers, but one fact that might be often overlooked, esp. cause many musicians today have home recording abilities:
Many rather budget basses are sold to guitarists as second instruments.
I don’t think the relation between guitarists and bassists is 3:1, rather 5:1, but that’s pure guessing on my side and a conclusion from far more bands searching for bass players than bands with a bass player searching for guitarists.
Your thoughts?

 

[jdjk7]

While both MM and G&L have always made guitars, it’s the basses that bring home the bacon.

This statement is funny to me with regards to G&L, because I have never felt super inspired by the L1000/L2000 but have always loved every guitar from them that I've picked up. I own a G&L Tribute Comanche, but not a G&L bass. If I did buy a G&L bass, it'd probably be whatever their passive P model is, or more likely a Kiloton or Fallout bass.

 

[Low End Scum]

Part of it could also be just not changing the naming convention. If I remember correctly, the original tele style P Basses were just called Precision Basses. When they went to the later design with the split P pickup, it just remained "the precision bass". Then with the J Bass they similarly just kept the name as things changed (even after Leo). New mute systems, non-concentric pots etc it all just stayed "the Jazz Bass (or Deluxe, depending on how early and pedantic you go).

Also, while it was in production and released in '65 as he was out the door, some quick Google-fu also implies Leo designed the Bass V as well.

So you could feasibly split the original Tele style P bass and the non-tele style one as 2 instruments like how the Esquire and Telecaster are divided. Then there's the Deluxe/J, and the Bass V

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

The main reason IMO is that the bass guitar has a longer scale length and you'll sacrifice ergonomics for weird shapes. A 34" telecaster bass will push the 1st fret about 3-4" away from you, and it will neck dive. Ideally the upper strap button should be around the 12th fret, and that does limit the body shapes one can come up with.

 

[GretschWretch]

Gibson (1953), Danelectro (1956), Kay (1952), Hofner (1955) and Rickenbacker (1956) were all making basses in the 1950s.

As were Multivox Marvel (1955 or '57?) and Magnatone (1959).

 

[Jeff Scott]

This statement is funny to me with regards to G&L, because I have never felt super inspired by the L1000/L2000 but have always loved every guitar from them that I've picked up.

Strangely enough, the only G&L I've owned was a JB-2.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

2) There wasn't enough market for bass (This is supported by the length of time it took the bass to become a 'respectable instrument'. It's not til the early 60s that the bass becomes ubiquitous, and it had competition from Gibson, Gretsch, Danelectro, etc ....

Those are my thoughts. IMO, even most of the competition with their sad, toy like offerings, couldn't keep up with the P or J.

 

[tim gueguen]

Simple market reasons. There was literally no competition when the Precision hit the market in 1951. The first competitor was from Kay in 1952, followed by Gibson's Electric Bass(later renamed the EB1) in 1953. But by the end of the decade there were at least half dozen different models by different makers available in the US0. So it was time for a new and improved Fender. It was also a counterpart to the Jazzmaster guitar.

"Leo got it right the first time" isn't something he thought. He did stuff to answer market demand. The Strat was an upgraded Fender instrument to compete with top of the line 3 pickup guitars like Gibson ES5 and the Epiphone Zephyr Emperor Regent. Apparently he was a bit surprised that there was still a market for the Telecaster after his better guitar debuted. The Bass VI appeared because someone at Fender found out that the Danelectro 6 string bass was used to record "tic tac" bass on country records, and they hoped their "better" instrument would cut into those sales. The Mustang bass came along to be a counterpart for the student oriented Mustang guitar, being cheaper than a Precision or Jazz, and easier to play for younger musicians because of its shorter scale length. If some company had successfully marketed a bass guitar with a 40 inch scale Fender probably would have offered one too.

 

[matty1039]

As someone said before there was a major change to the p bass in the late 50s. From a single coil slab body to a split-coil with contours. While it has the same name, they are pretty different basses.

Also, don't forget in the 1960s Fender also offered the Telecaster bass with a big humbucker and the Coronado hollow-body bass. They just are not as well loved as the P and J.

 

[Nunovsky]

You have other Fender Models:

Mustang
Musicmaster
Jaguar
Dimension
Meteora
Starcaster
Coronado
Urge
Aerodyne
Bullet
Zone
Performer

 

[DavidEdenAria]

It is tough to find numbers, because most sale statistics put guitars and basses together.

I only found one:

„Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars
Global Sales Overview
In 2022, the electric guitar market size was valued at $1.5 billion, with a projected growth rate of 3.5% CAGR for the next five years. In contrast, the bass guitar market stood at around $550 million with a slightly lower growth rate.“

Sales Statistics for Electric Guitars vs Bass Guitars

So, if it’s correct, the relation is about 3:1

Important: these numbers are for electric instruments. In former years more acoustic guitars than electric guitars were sold. During the last years the electric guitars sold outnumber the acoustic ones. It is evident to me, that few people are interested in acoustic basses.

I am not the one to interpret these numbers, but one fact that might be often overlooked, esp. cause many musicians today have home recording abilities:
Many rather budget basses are sold to guitarists as second instruments.
I don’t think the relation between guitarists and bassists is 3:1, rather 5:1, but that’s pure guessing on my side and a conclusion from far more bands searching for bass players than bands with a bass player searching for guitarists.
Your thoughts?

I am guessing your point about home recording has an impact on bass guitar purchases...look at short scale basses, they were never considered the standard but i definitely see a small trend towards short scale basses with guitarists in the studio but also old folk like me that get along better with a light weight SS, they are more compact in size usually.

Concerning acoustic basses, i know of several artists playing clubs that attempted to move towards acoustic bass for small low volume gigs but many went back to their electrics.....too many sound issues with live acoustic bass possibly?

The shortage of bassists is real....very competent bassists i know in my area have all the work they want...many are engineer producer types as well....maybe bassists are better listeners in a band context leading them to being engineer/producer types?

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Simple market reasons. There was literally no competition when the Precision hit the market in 1951. The first competitor was from Kay in 1952, followed by Gibson's Electric Bass(later renamed the EB1) in 1953. But by the end of the decade there were at least half dozen different models by different makers available in the US0. So it was time for a new and improved Fender. It was also a counterpart to the Jazzmaster guitar.

"Leo got it right the first time" isn't something he thought. He did stuff to answer market demand. The Strat was an upgraded Fender instrument to compete with top of the line 3 pickup guitars like Gibson ES5 and the Epiphone Zephyr Emperor Regent. Apparently he was a bit surprised that there was still a market for the Telecaster after his better guitar debuted. The Bass VI appeared because someone at Fender found out that the Danelectro 6 string bass was used to record "tic tac" bass on country records, and they hoped their "better" instrument would cut into those sales. The Mustang bass came along to be a counterpart for the student oriented Mustang guitar, being cheaper than a Precision or Jazz, and easier to play for younger musicians because of its shorter scale length. If some company had successfully marketed a bass guitar with a 40 inch scale Fender probably would have offered one too.

Imagine holding a 40" scale horizontally on a small stage lol!

 

[40Hz]

My bigger question is what exactly is a bass supposed to “evolve” to? It does what it needs to do. Much like a flute, or an oboe, or a piano. And does anyone seriously suggest any of those instruments need to further evolve? Why not just invent a new instrument like Emmett Chapman did with his Stick. Or take up an additional instrument or three if you’ve become bored with bass guitar?

Check out The Stick if you’re not already familiar with it:

 

[2thAche]

If someone could make something better that would sell, they would. There really hasn't been anything to outsell the classics. Guitars are still pretty much Strat, Tele and Gibson designs so it's not just bass. Is it that they were just perfect designs out of the gate? Or is it just as simple as that there are only so many positions for a pickup, and so many shapes for a body and neck that work functionally and ergonomically.

 

[Phaidrus]

Because bass is boring and only failed guitarists will play a bass guitar, and chicks dig guitar players.

Don't @ me, I'm just telling you what a large portion of the public thinks, or at least did when I was growing up.

Let's give some credit to Lemmy, Sting and Simonon, among others, for sexually emancipating the bass player.