Digital Amp User Interface

[agedhorse]

No, I was clear in my description. Nowhere did I mention digital effects or an effects loop.

All of the principle processing done in the digital domain is what makes it a digital amp.

The Mesa TriAxis is an example of an analog preamp with digital controls.

 

[amper]

No, I was clear in my description. Nowhere did I mention digital effects or an effects loop.

All of the principle processing done in the digital domain is what makes it a digital amp.

The Mesa TriAxis is an example of an analog preamp with digital controls.

I just mean that, as an example of an amp that falls into this category, the Katana clearly has digital effects built-in.

I've never used a TriAxis, but I did at one point have a matching rackmount V-Twin and 20/20, both chrome. I should have kept them, but selling them was guaranteed money, and I did replace them with my Mesa F-50 (was supposed to be an F-50 and an F-30).

 

[agedhorse]

The Fender Tonemasters also have digital effects built in, but all processing, including the effects, are done in the digital domain which makes it a digital amp with digital effects (or just a digital amp since the effects are implied).

 

[gtirard]

If I don't recognize an amp such as Andy described above as a "digital amp", it's nothing to do with the interface and everything to do with whether or not I understand that the preamp function is a digital model or analogue circuitry.

To my mind, at least before today, an amp with an analogue preamp, built-in digital effects, and an analogue power amp isn't something I'd describe as a "digital amp", I would describe it as being no different to a regular analog amp with digital effects placed in an effects loop. I would call it an analogue amp with built-in digital effects that I can choose to use, or not.

But if the preamp is in fact all digital (aside from, of course, the input jack and possibly a few minor components ahead of the ADC), then there's no analogue domain, at all. My signal is always digital, just as it is when I am using my GT-1000Core, until it hits the power amp, if it ever actually does.

If the industry is calling amps with analogue preamps and digital effects "digital amps", well, then I need to understand that industry practice may be different from my personal perceptions. If all of the amps mentioned actually have no analogue preamps, at all, then that's something I didn't know before today. There are plenty of examples of analogue pedals that have digital controls, but whose signal chain is analogue. No biggie, technology moves on.

Boss doesn't explain clearly the technical side of the Katana 500, but if the memory stores everything including EQ and if the iPhone app lets you control everything, it means the entire preamp is digital, it's not an analog preamp followed by a digital multi-effects.

 

[agedhorse]

The Katana is almost certainly a “fully digital” audio platform.

I haven’t examined one personally, hence my use of the word almost.

[edited for typo]

 

[YourGuitarist]

I mean part of what comes to mind is that if you spend the money and hardware to setup extended DSP, why wouldn't you cram as much of the functions into it as possible.

 

[gtirard]

I mean part of what comes to mind is that if you spend the money and hardware to setup extended DSP, why wouldn't you cram as much of the functions into it as possible.

I agree, as long as the extra features don't ruin the user experience during rehearsals, soundcheck and gigs.
At some point, more is not always better, especially if it means you get an overwelming user interface.

I think for example, that the looper feature suggested by @ImTheOnlyOne is a brilliant idea, as it can facilitate the sound check process by letting you adjut your tone while hearing your instrument.

And of course, a lot of other cool features, as long as the first contact with the amp remains straighforward and intuitive.

 

[YourGuitarist]

I agree, as long as the extra features don't ruin the user experience during rehearsals, soundcheck and gigs.
At some point, more is not always better, especially if it means you get an overwelming user interface.

I think for example, that the looper feature suggested by @ImTheOnlyOne is a brilliant idea, as it can facilitate the sound check process by letting you adjut your tone while hearing your instrument.

And of course, a lot of other cool features, as long as the first contact with the amp remains straighforward and intuitive.

I gotta be flat honest, every time I've seen a looper on an amp, its controlled by buttons on the panel and that is IMO the most useless, dysfunctional feature. If you're gonna have a looper, have footswitch for it. I'm not trying to pull my hands off the guitar just in time to press a button on the panel. Hot take, I know.

In regard to your quoted post, if it's pre-recorded in the amp, then it's not a bad idea, though one will have to understand that the genre specific sounds aren't a one-size-fits-all. To be fair, sound check is a pretty different flavor of looping from live performance.

 

[agedhorse]

Too many features can definitely get in the way of a product’s usability. This is a classic cause by somebody designing a product when they don’t understand the player’s perspective.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

I gotta be flat honest, every time I've seen a looper on an amp, its controlled by buttons on the panel and that is IMO the most useless, dysfunctional feature. If you're gonna have a looper, have footswitch for it. I'm not trying to pull my hands off the guitar just in time to press a button on the panel. Hot take, I know.

In regard to your quoted post, if it's pre-recorded in the amp, then it's not a bad idea, though one will have to understand that the genre specific sounds aren't a one-size-fits-all. To be fair, sound check is a pretty different flavor of looping from live performance.

What if the looper were a little wireless module? Bonus if it could have a tuner. Imagine something like a cheapo Lekato or Line6, with a screen like a Strobostomp mini, that would snap into a charging inset on the amp.

And, right. Not meant to replace a live performance looper.

 

[YourGuitarist]

What if the looper were a little wireless module? Bonus if it could have a tuner. Imagine something like a cheapo Lekato or Line6, with a screen like a Strobostomp mini, that would snap into a charging inset on the amp.

And, right. Not meant to replace a live performance looper.

What do you mean by wireless? As in wireless pedal, wireless input jack?
As far as I know, a tuner is absolutely doable and invaluable.

 

[YourGuitarist]

Too many features can definitely get in the way of a product’s usability. This is a classic cause by somebody designing a product when they don’t understand the player’s perspective.

What features have your found redundant over the years?

 

[el murdoque]

You did say "digital amp".

I will say, however, that the trouble with LEDs surrounding the knobs is that you can't see them well with your fingers on the knobs.

It is quite common practice to use rotary encoders with LED rings. TC did it with their Rebel Head series, and Behringer/Midas on the X32, for instance.
I found they work well.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

What do you mean by wireless? As in wireless pedal, wireless input jack?
As far as I know, a tuner is absolutely doable and invaluable.

Like a small wireless transmitter. Or maybe just add a loop feature to a wireless transmitter to accomplish the same end.

If my wireless transmitter could record small loops for playback that would be really handy.

Not every feature makes sense to integrate into the amp head. A preamp certainly makes sense. Maybe, if we toss a truckload of top shelf bass gear into Apple's iPad smasher?...

 

[gtirard]

My idea for the "sound check" looper was:

• One button
• Press the button
  • 3 seconds count-down (orange light),
  • then the amp starts recording for 3 second (length would be configurable in the preferences) - (red light)
  • At the end of the recording, the amps plays the loop (green light), and you're free to adjust your sound like you want while hearing your loop. We all agree it's not going to loop well, but who cares? This features is only intended to facilitate tone setting, you can use a footswitch if you want to make a nice loop.
• The loop button toogles play/stop
• Long press to record a new loop
• Optional footswitch if you want to make nice loops for live performance

Thoughts?

 

[YourGuitarist]

Like a small wireless transmitter. Or maybe just add a loop feature to a wireless transmitter to accomplish the same end.

If my wireless transmitter could record small loops for playback that would be really handy.

Not every feature makes sense to integrate into the amp head. A preamp certainly makes sense. Maybe, if we toss a truckload of top shelf bass gear into Apple's iPad smasher?...

So that probably depends on a number of things. Is the wireless transmitter sending (start stop record undo) controls to the looper onboard of the amp or is the looping done at the transmitter? In other words, is the buffer that holds the recording ran at the amp or transmitter. Communication and processing latency are concerns as the sensitivity to timing on looper IME means even a handful of mS can screw it up. Similarly, an entire looper running in the transmitter mean more processing power and onboard battery power.

I'm no master of embedded systems but my assumption is the simplest route is to have a wired connection. I'm guessing you're opting for wireless so that one can travel to FOH etc to hear the sounds in the room.

 

[YourGuitarist]

My idea for the looper was:

• One button
• Press the button
  • 3 seconds count-down (orange light),
  • then the amp starts recording for 3 second (length would be configurable in the preferences) - (red light)
  • At the end of the recording, the amps plays the loop (green light), and you're free to adjust your sound like you want while hearing your loop. We all agree it's not going to loop well, but who cares? This features is only intended to facilitate tone setting, you can use a footswitch if you want to make a nice loop.
• The loop button toogles play/stop
• Long press to record a new loop
• Optional footswitch if you really need to make a nice loop (with usual controls)

Thoughts?

Thats a critical distinction. I was approaching looping from the angle of live performance, not mixing. Though I will say that any looper fit for performance is fit for tone tweaking.

 

[agedhorse]

What features have your found redundant over the years?

Many obtuse signal routing options, "tone features" that don't translate to good real world outcomes, tuners that don't work well for bass (it's a LOT harder than it appears to discriminate the fundamental from the harmonics on bass guitars), effects that are provided "just because", confusing user interfaces that get in the way of the basic operation of the amp, features that end up ultimately affecting the reliability of the amp, etc.

 

[YourGuitarist]

Many obtuse signal routing options, "tone features" that don't translate to good real world outcomes, tuners that don't work well for bass (it's a LOT harder than it appears to discriminate the fundamental from the harmonics on bass guitars), effects that are provided "just because", confusing user interfaces that get in the way of the basic operation of the amp, features that end up ultimately affecting the reliability of the amp, etc.

Something I'm kind of curious to see in industry is how designers reconcile their own 'taste' and unique designs with the client requirements generated by users. There's something to be said about wanting to experiment with design and sound guided by more experienced ears than the average user. I would imagine that not every feature in an amp is discernable to the user IMO.

 

[Bevan777]

I like your designs but I can’t help but think about the use case here, I think having all your effects coupled with your amp creates more problems than you solve.

The end user is going to have to invest time and energy to learn and set the parameters in the way they like, only to be able to use it with this one amp.

I think the degree of modularity we have with separate effects devices is better for most use players needs.