Digital Amp User Interface

[amper]

I can make the case for myself for using a digital amp on bass much more easily than for guitar, since my effects needs on bass are much simpler. Although I will likely maintain a separate analogue rig, as well, just because I can, I’m perfectly comfortable with the idea of my bass rig being a GT-1000Core, a stereo DI box, and a power amp or basic head. If all of that were in one box, that would be cool, too, but at least for my purposes, the ability to have the processing at my feet means I don’t have to carry the power amp or head if I don’t need to, and I don’t have to carry a separate footswitcher unit.

I’m sure that would be much less of a problem for a lot of other people, but right now I’m personally focused on carrying as little weight and size as possible for a rig that will fit in an airline underseat bag. In any case, the same design concepts apply, whether it’s a floor unit or a head unit, or a combination of the two.

It doesn’t necessarily need to be a Boss unit for me, although, with this generation, I’m very satisfied with the GT-1000Core, and I expect the GT-2000Core to be even better, when it comes into being. I’m very happy with Boss’ X series digital pedals and algorithms: the CP-1X, OD-1X, DS-1X, BB-1X, BC-1X, and NS-1X, as well as their AIRD amp models. They are all so good that I can easily see myself using them for the rest of my life, or at least until Boss replaces them with even better models. I’m not particularly interested in the Katana Bass head or the other Katana products, though I might consider a Nextone combo for guitar jam sessions.

But if another company comes out with a unit that’s even better and competitive on price, I’d strongly consider it, too.

 

[agedhorse]

I like your designs but I can’t help but think about the use case here, I think having all your effects coupled with your amp creates more problems than you solve.

The end user is going to have to invest time and energy to learn and set the parameters in the way they like, only to be able to use it with this one amp.

I think the degree of modularity we have with separate effects devices is better for most use players needs.

Correct, the learning curve is a huge impediment to ready adoption of this technology.

 

[gtirard]

I like your designs but I can’t help but think about the use case here, I think having all your effects coupled with your amp creates more problems than you solve.

The end user is going to have to invest time and energy to learn and set the parameters in the way they like, only to be able to use it with this one amp.

I think the degree of modularity we have with separate effects devices is better for most use players needs.

Good point. I prefer to keep effects out of my amp too (that's one of the reasons why I'm not attracted to digital amps).

But some people my like a all-in-one solution, or keep their pedal but have to possibility to add a digital effect once in a while if they want to try an effect just for one song.

Also maybe my user interface regarding the effects is too complex, I have to re-think about it.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Something like this for the on switch?

Bass Low-Mid High Mid Treble

(Still traumatized from a remodeling)

 

[agedhorse]

View attachment 5454885
Something like this for the on switch?

View attachment 5454888
Bass Low-Mid High Mid Treble

(Still traumatized from a remodeling)

Some of these switches/dimmers are being discontinued or significantly changed. Beware (more trauma)

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Some of these switches/dimmers are being discontinued or significantly changed. Beware (more trauma)

And I used 3 of the 4 Those wireless ones were really a cost saver on installation costs though.

UX wise however... triangular buttons?

The ones like on the far left I've already replaced. Those tiny rockers fail.

 

[BAG]

I've got a Katana guitar amp and it's pretty good. My only real gripe with it (and with most digital amps) is that, unless you are connected to a computer or other device, when you switch patches you have no way of knowing where the knobs are set for each patch if you want to tweak it.

I had the classic example of this problem last night. I was playing my baritone guitar through my Katana amp. There was a bit much reverb..... I turned the reverb pot down from 2 o'clock to 11 o'clock and the reverb turned up! It appears that I had it set at around 9 o'clock in the patch.

 

[gtirard]

OK, we're here to discuss about the UI of a physical bass amp with a digital front end.
There's no real project, just fun, food for thought, and the pleasure of talking.

My amp is now called "Sound Check Bass 800"

You can detach the control panel from the amp body to take it with you (the control panel will look like a Nitendo Switch, it will communicate wirelessly with the amp body).

The small "Volume" control is a software volume, stored with each preset.
The big "Master" knob on the right is a hardware volume, independant from presets.

If you press the "Looper" button: the full name of the feature is "Sound check looper", intended to help you setting your tone hands-free.

(you may find a real "performance looper" controled by the optional footswitch in the "Effects" menu)

For now you can adjust the tempo and length of the loop, then press the "Looper" button

Count-down of 4 beats

Recording the loop

At the end of the recording, the amp goes automatically in "loop play" mode, you can adjust your settings hands-free

Press again the Looper button to toogle play/pause
Long press to clear the loop from memory and record a new loop

----------------------------------------------

2 questions:

#1 Do you find the feature usefull or useless?
#2 Do you find my implementation straightforward and practicle?

 

[gtirard]

I had the classic example of this problem last night. I was playing my baritone guitar through my Katana amp. There was a bit much reverb..... I turned the reverb pot down from 2 o'clock to 11 o'clock and the reverb turned up! It appears that I had it set at around 9 o'clock in the patch.

This is the main reason why I started this thread and mockup. I'll come back to it later.

 

[Taustin Powers]

I really like your ideas and designs.

The Looper function is not something I would look for in an amp, but I do like your implementation.

 

[gtirard]

I really like your ideas and designs.

The Looper function is not something I would look for in an amp, but I do like your implementation.

Thanks.

The idea came from my BL: he has a looper feature on his keyboard, and he uses it that way at the beguining of each rehearsal. I never bothered using the loop feature of my HX Stomp for tone setting, but I think if I had a single button like this on my amp I would use it.

I also think that it takes too much space on the amp for what it does, but if we "hide" the feature in the interface it becomes useless - so I might remove the feature completely, I'm not sure yet.

Same thing for the detacheable control panel: my BL does this for his synth because it's far from the mixing board, so he wanted to avoid going back and forth from the keybord to the mixing board. It made me think that we are used to walk to our amp to change the settings, then move back to where we play. But the sound is quite different when we are closed to our amp, so it would be nice to be able to change the settings from anywhere. Of course, we could use a smartphone, it's just that I prefer real knobs than touch screen. Of course, it's not very feasible. It's fun but not very interesting to imagine solutions that can't be realized, so I will probably drop this feature in the next iterations.

 

[Taustin Powers]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

When are you planning to release this product?

 

[gtirard]

A quick note about the "Sound Check Looper": I'm not sure about the step where you can set the tempo and length before recording. I did it because I want the feature to work without a footswitch, in case the user don't want to have a "bad looping loop". I know that personnaly I don't mind if my loop don't loop well, so I would probably quikly get into the habit of double pressing the loop mode to enter recording directly, then I would record until the looper goes automatically to play mode. It works, so it's fine for those who care and those who don't care about bad looping loops.

But I could also have decided that the Sound Check Loop would direcly record 3 seconds, then switch to play mode.

 

[gtirard]

I'd like to have your opinion:

I have a Ovation Magnum II bass, it has a very original onboard preamp: there was 3 band EQ, and each band was attached to a reverse volume in order to compensate the volume change when you modify the EQ, so that you work on your tone at a constant level: if you increase the bass, there's a volume reduction at the same time so that the overall volume of the instrument is constant. Hard to explain but super easy and intuitive to use.



I found it very handy. I never saw this again on any other instrument.

I wonder if you would appreciate to have a "constant volume" option on an bass amp, so that when you work on your tone, you're not obliged to compensate manually with the master to keep a constant volume. This would work for EQ and for the gain, and of course it would be an option. I can imagine it would be easier to do on a digital amp, and I'm surprised that I never saw this on an amp or a DAW.

Am I alone?

I can imagine that @agedhorse is going to tell me that the impact of the EQ modification on the perceived volume depends of the frequency you change, and several other parameters, including human persception, which varies from one individual to another?

 

[agedhorse]

I'd like to have your opinion:

I have a Ovation Magnum II bass, it has a very original onboard preamp: there was 3 band EQ, and each band was attached to a reverse volume in order to compensate the volume change when you modify the EQ, so that you work on your tone at a constant level: if you increase the bass, there's a volume reduction at the same time so that the overall volume of the instrument is constant. Hard to explain but super easy and intuitive to use.

View attachment 5456079

I found it very handy. I never saw this again on any other instrument.

I wonder if you would appreciate to have a "constant volume" option on an bass amp, so that when you work on your tone, you're not obliged to compensate manually with the master to keep a constant volume. This would work for EQ and for the gain, and of course it would be an option. I can imagine it would be easier to do on a digital amp, and I'm surprised that I never saw this on an amp or a DAW.

Am I alone?

I can imagine that @agedhorse is going to tell me that the impact of the EQ modification on the perceived volume depends of the frequency you change, and several other parameters, including human persception, which varies from one individual to another?

I worked with the guy that developed many of these preamps for Ovation, I do not recall ever seeing that feature. There was a feature that included the input and output gain that tracked but I don't recall that ever being a user feature or lasting very long.

It would be tough to adjust the overall gain along with the eq, because say you boosted the 60Hz band by 6dB and the gain reduced by 6dB, all the other notes would simultaneously duck behind the 60Hz band. This makes the controls awfully interactive and not in a good way I wouldn't imagine.

 

[YourGuitarist]

Automatic gain controls exist with the ability to set a target volume. I imagine the RMS target could be set in a multiband fashion if one really wanted to make EQ changes not so heavy handed on volume. That would be a decent sized analog circuit though.

 

[agedhorse]

Automatic gain controls exist with the ability to set a target volume. I imagine the RMS target could be set in a multiband fashion if one really wanted to make EQ changes not so heavy handed on volume. That would be a decent sized analog circuit though.

It would be preposterously complicated and still not be very useful. There are a huge number of downsides to that kind of dynamics management, including a big impact on feel.

 

[YourGuitarist]

It would be preposterously complicated and still not be very useful. There are a huge number of downsides to that kind of dynamics management, including a big impact on feel.

I don't disagree with you. Its food for thought to me but one has to consider the market response proportionate to the resources to make it happen.

I don't think its far fetched to say that the change in volume when EQing is part of how we engage with it and how we perceive the impact of said changes. We know that boosting high treble is ineffective because we don't hear significant increases in volume and perceptibility at large rotations of the control.

 

[gtirard]

Would that be more intuitive?

 

[Kirk Bryant]

It would for me. I’m liking seeing the image as it “speaks” to my recognition of what I’m adjusting