Disadvantages to headless basses?

[wintremute]

A Status Streamline was actually one of the headless basses that I first considered. I thought it would be fun because it would enable me to take my motorcycle to gigs when I was using a backline cab. I have a little D class amp, and I could have taken that and the Streamline, and motorcycled to gigs/rehearsals. In los Angeles a motorcycle is a MAJOR traffic advantage.

But, I'll be honest. I am generally a "I don't care what other people think" kinda guy. But I just couldn't get past the constant ribbing I would take over the look of the Streamline. With every day I age, I get less vain. So maybe the Streamline will be in my future, when I get even less vain.

That Streamline bass looks awesome, so I'm not sure how much ribbing you would take.

 

[Upfromthesky]

I’ve had a Steinberger L2 Bass since 1982 and I still play it regularly. Well balanced and sounds great. Double ball end strings are easy to install and tune. I don’t know if Ned Steinberger invented the headless idea but he perfected it at any rate. And he did that so that a bass would balance well and not be neck heavy. You’ll notice that his NS Design upright basses are not headless. That’s because they are mostly played on a stand so balance is not a consideration.
As far as dead spots on a headless I haven’t ever heard that it’s a problem. Someone mentioned a dead A string on a headless. I don’t doubt his or her experience. But it’s the only time I’ve heard of that problem so it may be an isolated problem.
I’m sure there must be somewhere that you can play some type of headless bass before you commission a custom build if you haven’t already played one.
Good luck!

 

[Gilmourisgod]

“LVL” stands for Laminated Veneer Lumber, which is strips of wood veneer laminated together under tremendous pressure and heat with an adhesive, it’s much stiffer and stronger than an equivalent solid wood beam. Calling it plywood doesnt do it justice, but I guess it’s plywood on steroids. Early Kubicki necks were something like 30 layers of veneer, and extremely stiff and stable.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I've had one of just about everything with the exception of the Kiesel Vader / Osiris and I'm looking for one of those at the moment. Up to this point, none has ticked all my boxes...some have come close, though. If designing my own headless bass, there are several design concepts I would pirate from the various manufacturers...a handful I would leave by the curb.

Riis

 

[Nephilymbass]

I know that the look of a headless bass is a turnoff to many people. Regardless, I am considering buying one (a very expensive one). I have owned 800 billion basses in my life, but never a headless.

The claimed advantages are many (less weight, better weight distribution, no dead spots, better tuning, etc.). But to those of you that have played them extensively, are there any disadvantages with a headless bass? Anything that drove you crazy that I might be missing?

And just to be clear, the headless I'd be buying would be able to accommodate any strings. It wouldn't require double ball ends. So that wouldn't be a disadvantage.

Thanks in advance for any input.

For me it’s mainly just the look of most headless designs. Most I would say are futuristic looking by 1980s standards. Kind of weird retro futuristic vibe. I’ve seen a few recently though that I liked the look of. to me it looks a lot better on “coffee table” bass where you see the wood grain.

I guess the size thing is a little bit of an issue. I’m a big guy and they make me look even bigger.

My only other concern is just that after owning so many “normal” basses I’m paranoid about the mechanical parts of headless system wearing out. For example I looked at the Kiesel stuff. I do think their Zues model looks cool headless. But the string locks into the nut with a screw. What happens when that screw is stripped or the slot it screws into wears out? It’s a proprietary part that I worry would be a pain to replace.

 

[micguy]

I actually read that wrong, thanks for pointing that out. I thought he was talking the whole A string. If it was just the open A, that sounds like the A string nut slot was possibly cut too low.

Nope - it was a run of the mill dead spot, not a nut slot cut issue. The b flat (fret 1) was a but dead as well, but on that bass, the open a was the worst.

 

[kumimajava]

I have a (very old) LeFay Pangton headless, with the typical bolt-tightening headpiece. No issues with "flatwounds" unwinding - have tried LaBellas & Chromes.

I also tried LaBella nylon tapewounds on the Streamline, and they were fine while on the bass, but did unravel after removal. No issues while playing with them, though (but to me the sound just really didn't fit that bass).

Seems like the pressure necessary to secure the strings at the headpiece cuts through nylon tape, but simply "crushes" the metal in steel flatwounds, so the latter don't unravel. Heavy gauge steel flatwounds will most likely be fine

 

[KJMO]

Like others, I have probs with certain strings slipping (elixirs and flat wound). It also is a small but continuous irritation not to be able to strike the string while turning the tuning knob. I can do kind of a pull-off, but it's awkward. But I really like it though.

 

[B Dax]

As I read through most of these posts the thing that jumps out at me is that Ned’s NS Design CR5 Radius Bass has almost none of these issues.

Your hand will not slide off the end of the neck and I very much consider it to be a headless type bass.

It will fit in most guitar stands. Just not the type that hangs by a headstock because, well, there isn’t one.

It has a body and doesn’t look like the Steinberger’s from the 80’s. Not that it’s a bad thing.

They stay in tune for a really well for a long time and the tuners are quick and handy when needed.

You can change or just remove & replace the strings on this bass faster than anything I’ve ever seen. Genius. No double ball strings here. Almost any string will work. I have heard about some coated strings slipping and that’s about the only thing I’ve heard of that’s even close to negative about these basses.

They play and sound incredible.

 

[lucas303]

See,..that is the kind of thing I need to know. I never heard that headless can have common dead spots (let alone an entire dead string!). Most manufacturers claim no dead spots is one of the big advantages of headless,....but you know how manufacturer claims can be.

How many people report the A string being dead on a headless? Then think of how many headless basses have been made over the years.

 

[Maxdusty]

i really like being able to tune with my right hand (i am right-handed.) however, those little clip-on tuners that i like so much are tough to use on a headless. i've attached them to a volume knob before and tuned that way...

I just hold my clip on tuner next to the bass with my left hand and tune with my right. I have a Hohner headless - really enjoy playing that bass.

 

[57pbass]

An amazing LeFay bass from Germany.

 

[micguy]

Doesn't the tuning stability have more to do with the graphite composition rather than being headless?

BTW mine also stays in tune for months with a wooden neck, as well.
View attachment 3626202

If you look at thermal expansion rates, wood (in the direction of the grain, like a neck is made) has less thermal expansion (not by a lot, but by some) than graphite. The instability of tuning over temperature has almost nothing to do with whether then neck is wood or graphite - the thing that expands and contacts the most with temperature is the steel strings. If you have an aluminum neck, the neck expands and contracts more than the strings - it'll go out of tune in the opposite direction from a wood or graphite neck. The neck material that'l give you the best tuning stability over temperature would be steel, even though it's less temperature stable than graphite or wood, as it would expand and contract the same as the strings.

Over humidity, regular wood will move, but not much along the length. A roasted wood neck is, since it doesn't flex much over humidity (that stress is relieved in the torrefaction process), probably about as stable as a graphite one - my experience with roasted necks would agree that they're very stable. I only ned to do truss rode adjustments when I change the gauge of strings

The big difference between a headless and a bass with a headstock (assuming a nut with low frictions) is that the strings are a bit shorter - the strings won't stretch quite as much with temperature, since they're shorter. But, given the length across the headstock is much shorter than the rest of the string, that difference will be fairly small.

 

[Watchootognbout]

You can't hang them on the wall.

Sure you can!

 

[Tim Schnautz]

Sure you can!
View attachment 3626407

never seen one of those before...

 

[TNCreature]

No disadvantage at all. 0

 

[QweziRider]

I have owned 800 billion basses in my life...

I just love that phrase.

 

[Herrick]

If you look at thermal expansion rates, wood (in the direction of the grain, like a neck is made) has less thermal expansion (not by a lot, but by some) than graphite. The instability of tuning over temperature has almost nothing to do with whether then neck is wood or graphite - the thing that expands and contacts the most with temperature is the steel strings. If you have an aluminum neck, the neck expands and contracts more than the strings - it'll go out of tune in the opposite direction from a wood or graphite neck. The neck material that'l give you the best tuning stability over temperature would be steel, even though it's less temperature stable than graphite or wood, as it would expand and contract the same as the strings.

Over humidity, regular wood will move, but not much along the length. A roasted wood neck is, since it doesn't flex much over humidity (that stress is relieved in the torrefaction process), probably about as stable as a graphite one - my experience with roasted necks would agree that they're very stable. I only ned to do truss rode adjustments when I change the gauge of strings

The big difference between a headless and a bass with a headstock (assuming a nut with low frictions) is that the strings are a bit shorter - the strings won't stretch quite as much with temperature, since they're shorter. But, given the length across the headstock is much shorter than the rest of the string, that difference will be fairly small.

A bass with a headstock and one without a headstock will have similar tuning stability if they were constructed with the same materials?

 

[bobyoung53]

I have never owned one but have played them, the one I played was very body heavy, not balanced at all, it was a pain to tune and restring but the worst thing was they are butt ugly! It did sound good though and I don't remember any significant dead spots. Just felt weird though the balance was so off.

 

[micguy]

A bass with a headstock and one without a headstock will have similar tuning stability if they were constructed with the same materials?

Assuming the nuts have minimal friction, yes.

When discussing Steinbergers, you should know the neck is mostly wood - the graphite is a thin u shaped cross section that stiffens things. If it were all graphite composite, the thing would neck dive, as it'd be about 3x heavier than a wood neck.

Graphite rods are made from heat treated fibers (polymer fibers baked without oxygen) and epoxy. A roasted neck is heat treated fibers (cellulose fibers baked without oxygen) - the baking also crystallizes and hardens the lignin in the wood, which is the "glue" the holds the fibers together. The materials are different, but not that different.

So, comparing a graphite reinforced wood Steinberger neck to my graphite reinforced roasted wood Warmoth necks, you shouldn’t be too surprised that they are both pretty darn stable.