Disadvantages to headless basses?

[foothilla]

I've had one of just about everything with the exception of the Kiesel Vader / Osiris and I'm looking for one of those at the moment. Up to this point, none has ticked all my boxes...some have come close, though. If designing my own headless bass, there are several design concepts I would pirate from the various manufacturers...a handful I would leave by the curb.

Riis

Please,...do tell. What would you leave by the curb? And what do you think it key to have?

 

[foothilla]

For me it’s mainly just the look of most headless designs. Most I would say are futuristic looking by 1980s standards. Kind of weird retro futuristic vibe. I’ve seen a few recently though that I liked the look of. to me it looks a lot better on “coffee table” bass where you see the wood grain.

I guess the size thing is a little bit of an issue. I’m a big guy and they make me look even bigger.

My only other concern is just that after owning so many “normal” basses I’m paranoid about the mechanical parts of headless system wearing out. For example I looked at the Kiesel stuff. I do think their Zues model looks cool headless. But the string locks into the nut with a screw. What happens when that screw is stripped or the slot it screws into wears out? It’s a proprietary part that I worry would be a pain to replace.

Funny, we sound similar....

1) IMO, the headless basses that look best are the ones with nice "coffee table woods".
2) Im also a big guy (6'4", 200lbs) - and I also worry that a 32" headless bass will look like a toy on me.
3) I have the same exact concern about the screw system that hold the string at the nut end.

 

[whero]

Are there any nearly headless basses? Asking for a friend...

 

[foothilla]

Those ABM headless tuner/bridges can be somewhat painful to use. I have them on my latest bass, and had them on a Status last year - I can say I'm not especially thrilled with them. Awkward to string, and with flats (or tapes) the risk of damaging the wraps at the head clamp on string changes. The Status I only ever used with double-ball-end strings, and it was only a medium scale by virtue of its "Bend-well". (The strings were actually regulation long-scale "Steinberger" strings). That said, they friggin' stay in tune FOREVER. Which is very nice! I also have a Duke, which escapes the string clamp issues by virtue of its normal machine heads. Never a dead spot on ANY of these basses (and I have had several other headless over the years...). That said, I am a headless devotee now, my current 'main squeeze' headless is very ergonomic and only weighs 4.40 pounds! And I'm looking forward to adding a headless Basslab next year (if all goes well...)

The Marusczcyk uses ABM.

...and man, those Basslabs look like they would be super fun to play. Unfortunately, my nads just aren't big enough to step on stage with a bass that looks like it's from the year 2185. That is definitely the bass the Jetsons would use!

 

[foothilla]

I have been playing headless basses since 1985. Have had at least two on hand since then. Only dead note problem I have ever experienced was due to the string(s) and not the basses. I use Smith doubleball end stainless strings at present, but hey have the BG Stainless string adapters mounted. Before that it was LaBella or D'addario strings. The Smiths feel better to me and I can get them in 30-90 gauge sets. I am fortunate to own a very rare factory Steinberger XP2 Trans Trem bass that I use for vibrato mainly. It and my other XP2 have 90's era necks because they are thinner front to back than the 80's era necks. They are a boon for my aging body as far as ergonomics go. The snide remarks I get are often stifled once they hear the basses in action, after that is curiosity and question time. I am way beyond appearance of an instrument, my only requirement is for it to perform the task it was designed for. I'm also a player of those so called hideous pointy Charvel/Jackson basses as well as can be seen in the attached picture of my two XP2 basses.
Peace and Blessings,
Mike
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I wish I had the guts to show up at jazz gigs with a Steinberger whammy bar bass. Seeing the look of confusion on the faces of all the jazz nerds would be a trip!

 

[stringthrough]

You lose the visual "neck stops here" signage.

I played an original Steinberger in the 80's and that threw me off a bit, at least in the beginning.

 

[Alper Yilmaz]

I have three headless basses all of which I love. One is by Fodera and the other two are by Erkan Sizarlar, a luthier in Izmir, Turkey. At one point, I was travelling a lot and wanted to have a bass which would fit into a guitar gig bag and could be taken on board of an airplane.

The Fodera is a 33-inch Matt Garrison-shape bass with ash body and neck and an Indian rosewood fingerboard. It has one pickup, and a custom-designed Mike Pope preamp with all the controls in the cavity adjustable with trim pots (the only thing on the bass is an output jack like Anthony Jackson's). It is a bolt-on by the way and that bass really sings!

Imperial MG 5 Bolt-On Headless - Fodera

The other two are set-neck with alder bodies, ash necks and maple and cocobolo fingerboards. The one with the maple fingerboard is 33" and it has a pair of Nordstrand Fat Stacks with volume-volume-tone-tone controls (passive), and the cocobolo-fingerboarded one is 34" and it has one Nordstrand Big Split pickup and a Audere preamp with all the controls in the cavity (like the Fodera).

All three basses are five stringers tuned E-C.

As far as these basses are concerned:

- there are no dead spots,
- they are very stable (more of a neck-related condition, I believe), and
- they are very balanced (no neck dive).

I find tuning from the body side much more practical than tuning from the headstock anyway, so I am very happy with these instruments. Highly recommended...

 

[bdgotoh]

I've had 5 or 6 different headless basses and never found one that I loved.

The low weight at the end of the neck feels very odd while playing.

The considerable size of the tuning/bridge assembly pushes the pickups too far to the left, so my right hand fell naturally on the bridge instead of between the pickups

Tuning with my right hand was a huge pain: I had to pluck a string with my right hand, hold the bass steady with my left hand, then tune with my right hand before the note decayed.

The ergonomics on those I had were terrible - sharp bridge saddles, poor body contours, some protected the tuners and some didn't, only one brand had the strap button mid body at the body end, the rest had the button way off to the side which makes them hang oddly.

I think it might be possible to make one I liked but I already have too many headed basses that fit my needs perfectly so why bother?

Good luck with your purchase, I hope you love it!

 

[Tim de Martino]

One small problem I encountered on my Status Fretless 6 string was using regular (non double-ball) strings with the allen screws. After tightening the strings down you snip off the ends which can be very sharp.
View attachment 3626265
Those sharp ends will cut skin, damage furniture and shred the interior of gig bags. I solved the latter problem by buying a cheap plastic cup.
View attachment 3626266

I ended up with the BG Stainless adapter for my Steiny which is a similar design. I found that you need to clamp the string, cut it to length then back the clamp screws off. Wind the tuners a until the sharp ends are safely inside the headpiece (just enough so that they are not sharp) and then clamp them down really tight and tune up.

Hope that makes sense.. I do seem to remember a Status "sock" to fit over the end?

 

[Samatza]

The only disadvantage I found was there is no hard bit at the end that I can use to clip the guitar player upside his head when he does something stupid.
In all seriousness besides more limited string choice they’re pretty good.

 

[Cycleops]

About as useful as one of these:

 

[NeonVomit]

Borrowed a friend's Status Streamline for a few rehearsals when my Stingray was in for some TLC.

The headless thing feels kinda weird but you get used to it pretty quick. I found the "single cut" design more of a hinderance to be honest. Travelling with it must be so much easier than with a full size instrument.

Didn't notice any dead spots, but not sure if that was to do with the all-graphite construction or not.

I can imagine tuning is a bit annoying if the tuning machines are tight or not well-maintained, they'd need more force and grip to turn. Also not being able to use a clip-on tuner might annoy some people. That's one thing that makes me wonder.

Contrary to popular belief though you CAN hang a headless bass - keep the strap on and loop it over the hanger grip. If you've got straplocks on then there's no chance of it falling off.

I've read sustain might not be as great as with a conventional bass but I didn't notice anything like that - then again I didn't exactly use it for very long.

 

[Diddywah]

None whatsoever (ex Steinberger L2 player here)


EDIT: and I would go back to one if it had the sound I´m seeking today!

 

[nnnnnn]

I have a Kiesel VB5 and it feels awkward to fret the lower notes (the ones closer to the non-existent headstock).

Awkward psychologically or physically?

I haven't played a headless bass, but my main bass doesn't give me any tactile indication I'm near the headstock unless my thumb goes as far as or past the point on the back of the neck behind the nut, which it never does (except just now when I tried it to see if I could feel where the headstock starts).

 

[Diddywah]

Assuming the nuts have minimal friction, yes.

When discussing Steinbergers, you should know the neck is mostly wood - the graphite is a thin u shaped cross section that stiffens things. If it were all graphite composite, the thing would neck dive, as it'd be about 3x heavier than a wood neck.

Graphite rods are made from heat treated fibers (polymer fibers baked without oxygen) and epoxy. A roasted neck is heat treated fibers (cellulose fibers baked without oxygen) - the baking also crystallizes and hardens the lignin in the wood, which is the "glue" the holds the fibers together. The materials are different, but not that different.

So, comparing a graphite reinforced wood Steinberger neck to my graphite reinforced roasted wood Warmoth necks, you shouldn’t be too surprised that they are both pretty darn stable.

The Steinberger L2 is certainly a one piece graphite construction. Not a chip of wood in it. It is lightweight compared to most other basses, but surprisingly heavy considering the diminutive body. And absolutely no neck dive anyway; the bass is strapped exactly in the balance point via the swiveling strap plate on the back of it. The strap plate can of course be locked so it doesn't rotate 360. But sometimes it's fun to swing it to left hand position

 

[teh-slb]

I see no other disadvantage than the look if it's something you don't like, which doesn't seem to be the case. And it's back to fashion, look what Strandberg is doing right now.

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Right on, Vinny G.

Also, those basses, ugh They'd totally make you me look like a nerd. I already have a hard time connecting with the audience with my playing skillz, my move set, and my dress sense. I don't need another deterrent.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Glissing off the end of the neck.

So on a on a regular bass is your hand smacks the tuners?

Non-existent problem.

 

[Volker Kirstein]

... And just to be clear, the headless I'd be buying would be able to accommodate any strings. It wouldn't require double ball ends. So that wouldn't be a disadvantage...

Beware the Overlord of Music bridge. If your future Headless features this bridge, you are setting yourself up for trouble. They're difficult to intonate, and the tuning screws cross-thread/strip very easily. You may need to grease it right out of the box.

I gave mine away, as I couldn't pay someone to take it.

Also, string locks can be persnickity.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

@micguy .
I had the the misfortune of dropping my 86' Steinberger XP-2 and putting a sizeable gouge in the neck, exposing the core. No wood in there I could see, at least in the XP-2's, it's some kind of gelcoat over random strand carbon fiber mesh, all laid up in a mold like a boat hull. Nasty stuff to get in your fingertips, but I was able to fill the gouge with black Spectrum gelcoat paste and buff it out for a nearly invisible repair. Old video from the 80's with a few factory tour shots showing the mold process:



this is the only full factory tour video I've ever seen, they don't show neck layup, but a lot of other interesting details on the finishing and hardware. Pretty standard stuff except for the materials used.

 

[Frank77]

- The tunning machines are harder than the regular ones.
- Most of them need double ball strings
- You cant tune and play the open strings at the same time...

1. Yes, they are a little stiffer. However I find there is less necessary back-and-forth as it's easier to make small, precise adjustments.

2. No longer true.

3. I actually find tuning more comfortable and convenient on a headless, as I can keep my eyes on the tuner (down on my pedalboard) the whole time. I never have to stretch my arm and move my head to grab a tuner. I let the notes ring and there's PLENTY of time to make whatever adjustment I need to make, in that regard it is no different than with a traditional design.