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DIY 10/6 or 12/6 isolation cab for recording?

#41
rpsands said:
So then you realize how much of an improvement the fearful is. the crossover is really a superb balance of performance and cost as well. If you think you can do better at that price please post it instead of talking through the top of your hat.
Click to expand...

Simple and easy

JBL D140F or
JBL K140
mounted in a large cabinet with folded horn

there is no such thing as good and cheap:rollno:

otherwise for recording plug straight in to preamp with 1meg
input impedance

EQ if needed
 
#42
BogeyBass said:
Like i said go ahead laugh , don't care

pretty much no different than people who keep typing=

fEarful

nOthing wRong wIth a fEw Miss- Spelled wOrds

Ive seen the curves on the Fearful crossover, and now i know why the call it fEarful........looks like a mountain range.

can anybody here actually play a Minor or Major scale
like ive been quoted....just play your bass:bassist:
Click to expand...

LOL. That's the way it's spelled, pal. Link Removed

The only excuse for not having proper language skills is if it's not your first language.
 
#43
BogeyBass said:
Simple and easy

JBL D140F or
JBL K140
mounted in a large cabinet with folded horn

there is no such thing as good and cheap:rollno:

otherwise for recording plug straight in to preamp with 1meg
input impedance

EQ if needed
Click to expand...


Are you serious? You're advising a folded horn with a K140 to get a smoother FR than a fEarful crossed over to a 6nd410?

What does it have to do with recording? You poked fun at the fEarful's crossover like it's some kind of piece of crap, and the replacement you suggest is a 30 year old driver in a folded horn?

I am done talking to you :P
 
#44
rpsands said:
The more I think about it the more I think there's very little reason to use a speaker cabinet if you want flat response like a fEarful. .
Click to expand...
Exactly. And if you're doing an isolation cab there's no reason to use anything more than a single ten, and a very inexpensive one at that, either an Alpha or Beta. The entire reason for an isolation cab is to get a highly colored sound.
 
#45
please post it instead of talking through the top of your hat.
Click to expand...
Ouch! that one brings me back to the 'old country'

I agree with going the DI route. an iso box is going to sound like:bawl: but, it may be worth checking out the radial JDX [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] since you wouldn't have to put up a mic in the iso cab, some issues could be solved by that.
 
#46
rpsands said:
Are you serious? You're advising a folded horn with a K140 to get a smoother FR than a fEarful crossed over to a 6nd410?

What does it have to do with recording? You poked fun at the fEarful's crossover like it's some kind of piece of crap, and the replacement you suggest is a 30 year old driver in a folded horn?

I am done talking to you :P
Click to expand...

come on are u serious i just mentioned completely ancient drivers to see if u actually knew what i was talking about.

which you don't, and no i do not think that would get any where near a flat response. im not going to pull a design similar to a fEarful out of my ass. I would have to find drivers and work out a design , which would take some time. the reference to a folded horn is from a old cabinet design which is commonly mistaking as a folded horn... which its not. Im not talking about real folded horn common to large bass bins. Im talking about a very famous well known cabinet that uses those "30 year old drivers"
if you knew anything about the history of cabinet design you might have caught on to my wity smartass remark. but you didn't so whatever. Its a design that has been copied by GK crate and mesa boogie. and the more well known copies are the Mesa Boogie fullrange cabinets designed for the 400+
I will just keep on hinting and you will never figure it out. so please keep wasting your time, and redesign the wheel. Since mesa boogie already designed a cabinet that blows away a fearful way back in the 90's. Like I said the mesa boogie cabinet was based on a very famous early design using "30 year old drivers" Since your such a amazing engineer i figured you would have found my statement funny but you did not, hence you are still clueless. Since mesa boogie is more than aware of historical cabinet design and doesn't waste time reinventing the wheel. I would most likely sink money into improving or just copy what they did. Since in reality all they did is copy and improve a even older design. That older design is what i was trying to hint at and was way over your head. So yes I am done talking to you as well.

i already mentioned about 3 or 4 times the best flat response
is to record direct.

i already mentioned about 3 or 4 times the best flat response
is to record direct.

which is what you have been quoted on as well.
 
#48
The JBL E-130 is the 15" modern update of those "ancient 30 year old drivers" with has much more power handling and xmax of the older D and K series.


18 sound has copied the JBL voice coil and updated it even further with the 15MB700

18sound shows test data using a special design cabinet so don't be fooled by the extended freq response.

The 18sound is a copy of the JBL E-140 which has a honest 100db SPL
opps i mean E-130 which is 105db no bs

the 15MB700 is said to be 102 db which is overated but is a equal driver to the JBL E-140. and a very exellent driver on paper....i have not heard one.

The aluminum cap on the JBL would increase highend response
thou not computer perfect flat would eliminate the need for a 6" driver and could just operate full range. no crossover BS

The ancient D140 and K140 will sound just as good, less power handling. the D140 has a Alnico magnet which responds way faster and plays much better than any modern driver. the small xmax and low power handling just require a much larger inclosure.

keep laughing, because i don't care
JBL has been the king...and will always be the most copied
just read up on history. Eminence drivers have been a joke and always will be the poor mans driver:bawl:

those " 30 year old drivers" still sell for 300$.....and its not because a bunch of stupid old men like to talk about them.
 
#49
instead of playing around with crossovers

try a large cabinet with a 18 sound 15CX1000

its a coaxial driver and might improve high end, im not sure , i have never heard it but seems to be impressive on paper.
 
#51
I recommend seriously reading up on the fEarful designs to better understand them. The JBL drivers certainly have their uses, but there's no physical way they can match the fEarful performance in a lot of regards.

I agree with Bill... the only point to building an isolation chamber would be to get (desirable) coloration from a speaker.
 
#52
BogeyBass said:
The JBL E-140 is the 15" modern update of those "ancient 30 year old drivers"
Click to expand...
The JBL E-140 is an ancient 30 year old driver. The D and K series date to the 1960s and early 70s.
Eminence drivers have been a joke and always will be the poor mans driver
Click to expand...
Spoken with the attitude of an ill informed ill mannered juvenile. :rollno:
 
#53
billfitzmaurice said:
The JBL E-140 is an ancient 30 year old driver. The D and K series date to the 1960s and early 70s.
Spoken with the attitude of an ill informed ill mannered juvenile. :rollno:
Click to expand...

ok i will try again, keep talking:rollno:

http://www.usspeaker.com/jbl%20e130-1.htm

is there something about 105db SPL and 50 to 6k
you don't understand....
you can still find them and they are amazing....whatever
 
#54
BogeyBass said:
ok i will try again, keep talking:rollno:

http://www.usspeaker.com/jbl%20e130-1.htm

is there something about 105db SPL and 50 to 6k
you don't understand....
Click to expand...
I have a more than fair understanding of the E130. Its response rolls off below 200 Hz. At 50Hz it's lucky to have 95dB sensitivity; at 6kHz it's closer to 85dB, where its beamwidth runs about 20 degrees. It only reaches 105dB above 500Hz. And it's displacement limited in the low end to a whopping 50 watts.
 
#55
billfitzmaurice said:
I have a more than fair understanding of the E130. Its response rolls off below 200 Hz. At 50Hz it's lucky to have 95dB sensitivity; at 6kHz it's closer to 85dB, where its beamwidth runs about 20 degrees. It only reaches 105dB above 500Hz. And it's displacement limited in the low end to a whopping 50 watts.
Click to expand...

ok fair enough and what is your understanding of the other drivers i mentioned? such as the coaxial 18sound 15CX1000
would it work to eliminate the use of multi drivers and crossovers

18sound 15MB700

http://www.usspeaker.com/eighteensound-15MB700-1.htm

18sound 15CX1000

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#56
Passinwind said:
Nice guitar speaker, completely worthless for bass at 2.5mm Xmax.

Keep digging...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

OK fair enough which is no different than a Eminence Delta 15A
with a 2.7 xmax which finds its way into many bass amps.

Both which would not work in a high powered situation
but in a low level recording situation I think the E-130 would have much more clarity.
JBL E-130 = 50 -6k
Eminence Delta 15A = 48 -4K

Eminence 15A
http://www.usspeaker.com/Delta-15A-1.htm
will Bill tear apart the 15A just as much the E-130

but i still agree, both are not well suited for extreme bass applications..
 
#58
#59
To do what the fEarful does, you need three bands of drivers. It's impossible with a single driver unless you use a LOT of 6.5" woofers, which would cost a lot more money and be much bigger (since they'd have to be in a line array to maintain the same polar response). You can come close with a line of coaxial 10's, but still using multiple bands of drivers and requiring an extensive crossover.

The fEarful does a few things --

-Extremely flat response
-Extended low end as well as extended midrange/treble
-60 degrees or so horizontal dispersion all the way up to the high treble (if not better)
-Solid sensitivity (98db)
-Scads of power handling

Without multiple driver sizes it's just impossible to get this. Horn loaded cabs will require extensive eq to get the same level of smoothness. Not even using a bunch of small drivers would achieve the extended treble response of the horn.

Not all of the things the fEarful achieves are necessary for all players. So I'm not saying those things are necessary or even certainly desirable. Just that you aren't going to get them from a single woofer.

Now, if you add coaxials, it's possible to achieve similar performance with a line array of 10s with the top coaxial or something along those lines. The downside is the crossover is still very complex to get smooth transition to the horn, and the cost will be prohibitive.


TL;DR: There is a reason every professional PA in the world is 3-way at least.
 
#60
billfitzmaurice said:
Did you look at the off-axis response?

For six hundred dollars I'll go two way, with three hundred dollars left over.

Obviously you've never seen an SPL chart for that driver. Or you don't know how to interpret it.
Click to expand...

as far as the 15CX1000

I was hoping you could see past the cost of the driver, and elaborate more on its performance and ratings. due to the data you supplied on the E-130.It seems you are knowledgeable enough to provide some insight other than cost. I noticed myself that the SPL really starts to roll off at 300/200 HZ but that is fairly common among bassdrivers, but fairly worse with the 15CX1000. oh well...the high end response is great for the most part.

What 15" driver do you recommend ?

i understand SPL curves i was just using the 50-6k
as a reference from the websites data . I'm well aware most are over rated. and a chart is the only way to show accurate ratings, i just didn't have one in front of me.

isn't phase cancellation and time delay a problem in 2 way systems...has it been found or measured in the fearful design.
if so could setting back the 6" driver from the woofer help reduce delay..similar to the way most modern hi fi designs use a angle or tilt back baffles?....im not beating on the design im just asking nicely.

for the most part thou im curious on your 15" recommendation and what is your opinion on the
eminence Kappalite 3015

http://www.usspeaker.com/Kappa%20Lite-3015-1.htm
 

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