Do graphite rods make a difference?

[CapnSev]

How so? I can't say I've noticed any such occurance. The Lakland JO's, Glaub's and Dunn's sound pretty darn authentic to me. Heck, there's as much tonal variation within Fender Jazz basses as there are in the clones.

All I can say is that for me it feels like the sound is "bigger" with less "stuff" in the neck. I think there's a resonance difference between the two. I know that I can physically feel a difference between say a re-issue Fender, and a Standard one, in the way the neck vibrates. Put a hand on the end of the headstocks of the two and there's a difference.


... or maybe it's just me, I dunno.

 

[82Daion]

I've known him for over 25 years. We are not friends anymore.

:scowl:

Cheers,
Cameron

Sounds like there were much greater issues here than just graphite rods in the neck. I'd suspect (like Pete said) that the truss rod he was using was too weak to adjust the neck, especially in light of the amount of laminations and so forth.

The only basses I've played with graphite reinforcement have been Knuckle Quakes (which don't really compare to anything due to Skip's unique concept) and Skjolds. Every (5+ string) Skjold I've played has had a fantastic B-string, and the necks always feel rock-solid. They seem to be as stiff as the necks on Moduli and other graphite-necked basses I've played.

 

[Bass Viking]

Needless to say, the builder in question doesn't get any work from me anymore. I won't mention him by name, but he lives in Vancouver, BC, and is generally well-respected around here, which is a shame, because he is a total jerk and a fraud.

I've known him for over 25 years. We are not friends anymore.

:scowl:

Cheers,
Cameron

It's clear to me you're talking about Mike Kinal. I owned one of his basses briefly and it came from Bass Northwest, a place I know you detest. (double whammy, please don't hate me! ) Anyway, I sent it back because the neck was too wide for me at the lower positions but otherwise it seemed well made. The fretwork felt good. I didn't get around to adjusting the truss rod as I didn't keep it for very long. A friend of mine is a pro guitarist in Vancouver and I got to play his Kinal. Very nice instrument!

I think you were a bit quick to blame the graphite rods but I'm glad that Pete Skjold and Wylee from Warmoth chimed in with their experience.

 

[Human Bass]

Bassflute, I feel sorry for your experience. I can imagine the hype of having a 9-piece neck with two truss-rods and 3 carbon rods can make anyone imagine a neck that can survive a nuclear holocaust.

But it cant be the carbon fiber fault, after all there are plenty of full carbon fiber necks that are fully adjustable.

 

[fullrangebass]

I will be very specific in my post here. My humble experience over almost 30 Dingwalls, 25+ graphite reinforced and 4 "traditional" (one has a ONE piece maple neck) is the following: I can adjust the necks either way, going from speed metal no-relief lowest ever action, to huge relief allowing for "upright-like" swinging of the strings without any buzz, without any problem. The graphite reinforced ones seem not to feel seasonal changes (from around dry 0C to humid 40C+) whereas the wooden ones feel the seasonal differences more, albeit nothing grave (properly chosen, treated and applied materials, as I've mention on a previous post). It's great to have more than 40+ basses in use and ready to compare them side by side. My .02

 

[Woodwolf]

I have spoken to people who use graphite in depth; some taper the rods, some use shorter lengths, some confine its use to certain cuts of wood grain, and some try to get as much graphite in the neck as possible. There are theories and concerns in play with any wooden neck with graphite reinforcement? I am sure many are vaild in the context of design themes? I think personally that the market shifted towards thinner necks mandating the use of reinforcement, and over time also the neck thickness taper has become thinner, and maybe this is why makers are now looking for remedies in the truss rod materials? Meaning...the neck profiles have had an impact which may be as potent as any design feature witnessed in the market today. I am tired of thin necks and thin tapers, and I don't believe any maker knows the true answer to any question concerning the use of graphite, because of the time in use or field Test aspect. I am going back to plain old wood, no more glue and resin for me.

 

[KJung]

John, thanks for clearing that up!

+1 I did not realize that the 5 string Skylines had graphite.

From most of the above posts about the 'impact' of graphite being either positive or negative, it is my strong opinion that the issues the posters are talking about (both positive and negative) have much more do to with other issues (the skill or lack of skill of the luthier, particular pieces of wood, etc., etc.).

I again have noticed no 'stability' impact between my graphite and non-graphite reinforced necks, and no meaningful, systematic difference in dead spots across the 100 or so graphite reinforced basses I've spent significant time with, and the hundreds of non-graphite reinforced instruments I've spent time with. And, as mentioned in my previous post, comparing the otherwise identically spec'd Sadowsky NYC versus Metro's, and Skyline vs. USA 4 string basses (the closest to a true A/B I could get with a relatively large sample size), I noticed no improvement in stiffness or reduction in dead spots or difference in 'truss rod adjustability' between the two general executions.

Again, I don't think it does any harm, and in some situations, it may 'help'. Minor, minor issue versus the hundreds of other design decisions and components that make up a bass guitar IMO and IME.

 

[David Jayne]

Clearly it's all in the implementation/design. I have two necks with carbon rods- a USA standard P bass, and a custom bass I built using a USACG neck w. carbon rods. Both are very stable and easy to adjust.

 

[Tumbao]

He's a furniture builder. Nice piece of woodwork - electronics, fretwork/network is frequently a nightmare on his stuff.
Cheers, Cameron

I'm sorry for your bad experiences, However according to your information, I still can consider him for a passive fretless bass order.

But seriously, the item quality can be as good as it can finally be his guarantee and reputation.

 

[humpy thumb]

Reinforcement rods fighting against the the truss rod?Oh please.
Reinforcing rods,weather they're graphite or steel, should only run from about fret 12 to the end of the neck(body).From fret 1 up to fret 12,it's all truss rod.This is the area of the neck you want to actually move when making truss rod adjustments.

 

[Number27]

i don't know about graphite rods, but my jazz has a warmoth neck (wenge) with the steel reinforcement bars and that thing is ridiculously rigid. i adjusted it to nice relief when i put it on in early spring (with roto flats) and haven't had to change it since... at all! and i've changed strings like 5 times since then (going from the rotos, to chromes, to tapewounds, to different tape wounds, to fender flats, to galli flats) and it hasn't moved at all. not to mention the ridiculous humidity changes here in massachusetts.

 

[humpy thumb]

i don't know about graphite rods, but my jazz has a warmoth neck (wenge) with the steel reinforcement bars and that thing is ridiculously rigid. i adjusted it to nice relief when i put it on in early spring (with roto flats) and haven't had to change it since... at all! and i've changed strings like 5 times since then (going from the rotos, to chromes, to tapewounds, to different tape wounds, to fender flats, to galli flats) and it hasn't moved at all. not to mention the ridiculous humidity changes here in massachusetts.

Very wise choice of neck wood ya made there mate.
Wenge,which Warwick pioneered some 26 years ago,is one of the most rigid,stable & imo,best sounding neck woods available.It's almost as stiff as graphite,some say.

 

[Gard]

Reinforcement rods fighting against the the truss rod?Oh please.
Reinforcing rods,weather they're graphite or steel, should only run from about fret 12 to the end of the neck(body).From fret 1 up to fret 12,it's all truss rod.This is the area of the neck you want to actually move when making truss rod adjustments.

This statement may be true in SOME designs. However, I can tell you it is not accurate in MOST designs.

I can guarantee you that is not true in ONE design (and I've seen several others in production, so I can pretty much assure it to be inaccurate in several others).

 

[humpy thumb]

This statement may be true in SOME designs. However, I can tell you it is not accurate in MOST designs.

I can guarantee you that is not true in ONE design (and I've seen several others in production, so I can pretty much assure it to be inaccurate in several others).

Thanks for setting me straight on this.It's much appreciated.

 

[Woodwolf]

Everybody has an experience somehow with graphite reinforcement? Too strong or too weak, or truss rod interactive problems. I learned by trial and error that it takes 2 to adjust a truss rod and not ruin a neck. I get my son to help me, and he loves it. Here's what I do; relax string tension to floppy, put a bag of rice under the mid neck point, my son then puts downward pressure on the headstock which straightens the neck and takes pressure off the truss rod nut, then I adjust as needed a little at a time. It's 10 minutes work. All I want is for the truss rod to hold the neck relief. I don't expect it to overpower wood stress, string tension, or graphite. It works well and I don't need to worry about any other technical theories.

 

[Rodslinger]

I’m gonna go ahead and open this 11 year old can of whoop... Michael Tobias has obviously been having some fun. Just read what he said about Titanium rods in the “about this item” section of the page. [This invalid link has been removed]

 

[Garret Graves]

I’m gonna go ahead and open this 11 year old can of whoop... Michael Tobias has obviously been having some fun. Just read what he said about Titanium rods in the “about this item” section of the page. [This invalid link has been removed]

Ha! Good one. I was tripping out on the comments above yours (IE post#55) The guy needs his kid and a bag of rice, and 10 minutes later he has adjusted his truss rod....uh....

 

[thabassmon]

Any extra form of bracing that is stronger than the material its attached to should improve stability

 

[Rodslinger]

Ha! Good one. I was tripping out on the comments above yours (IE post#55) The guy needs his kid and a bag of rice, and 10 minutes later he has adjusted his truss rod....uh....

I read that too! I was baffled and almost hurt on the inside at the thought of a 10 minute truss rod adjustment involving two people lol.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've built two Ric clones now, both with CF rod stiffeners. I can only compare them to a genuine Ric, and the necks are are at least as stable, if not more so, than my old 4001, which had the double "hairpin" rods. The jury is still out, maybe it always will be, as each wood neck is unique. I can't see how the neck would ever become non-adjustable, it doesn't get harder as it dries out over time. Plenty of 50's and 60's basses still around with working truss rods. Some became unplayable by gradually forward bowing under tension, in theory CF rods should prevent that. In practice, I have no trouble dialing in correct relief, and it doesn't feel like the CF rods are fighting the DA trussrod. Let's reconvene in 20 years and compare notes, might be more conclusive then.