Do I need to know theory to play?

[Kro]

Theory is a big subject and a fascinating one, but at the end of the day it's an analytical tool... Not a rulebook. It helps formalize music into something we can write down and discuss rather than just hear in the moment.

Was just typing something similar - when used correctly, theory shouldn't be seen as a set of rules to avoid or bypass creativity ("in x sutation, y is the right approach") - IMO it's mostly helpful when new creative ideas need to be communicated between musicians. That goes both in giving and receiving feedback.

For this reason, a bassist in an originals band, or even just one that only follows notation, doesn't really have much of a need for theory even though it can prove helpful. It's also why it's essential for studio musicians or higher level instructors who need to constantly give and receive feedback.

 

[RichardW]

If you think about who has made music through history, I'd wager that 99.99% of them had no idea about music theory. Music came before music theory.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Man, are there a lot of super intelligent bassists, and many of them commented here.

Like many teachers, yours seems to assume too much about what you know and doesn't provide sufficient background and context. Nor does he want to take the time and trouble to explain. Because he learned this stuff so long ago and probably came by a lot of it naturally, he takes way too much for granted about your musical foundation. Teachers who can really explain this stuff in terms you understand are valuable and in very short supply.

But to answer your question directly, theory requirements are really based on the music you play. For jazz, it's pretty essential; for rock and funk and country, it's very useful but not at all required unless you're playing with musicians using the Nashville numbering system, which is really a form of theory.

Like anything else, the more tools you have, the better a player you'll be. But to "get by" to your and your bandmates' satisfaction, it's most important for you to know all chord tones and to have a great ear and a great sense of time and groove. It sounds as if you have no trouble "spelling" chords, and that's excellent, especially if you can spell all major, minor, dominant, half-diminished, and diminished chords, as well as major and minor Pentatonic scales. But the more you know, the more you'll grow.

 

[InhumanResource]

Was just typing something similar - when used correctly, theory shouldn't be seen as a set of rules to avoid or bypass creativity ("in x sutation, y is the right approach") - IMO it's mostly helpful when new creative ideas need to be communicated between musicians. That goes both in giving and receiving feedback.

For this reason, a bassist in an originals band, or even just one that only follows notation, doesn't really have much of a need for theory even though it can prove helpful. It's also why it's essential for studio musicians or higher level instructors who need to constantly give and receive feedback.

I agree that they don't need it, but it is helpful to be able to suggest what others have done and try out things/compositions that may not have been thought of without other exposure. It's all around a good thing to know.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Thee Ory?. never heard of her...

 

[bassbully]

Music theory or reading is not needed in most cases. Knowing your fretboard, what a chord/ key is and developing your ear and meter are vital to playing bass.

 

[57pbass]

The best thing I ever did related to bass playing was to study with a good teacher for a few years..he set me straight and made me a better player.

Learned the scales which is so important..

But to directly answer your question..No it’s not.

 

[BassBrass]

If you think about who has made music through history, I'd wager that 99.99% of them had no idea about music theory. Music came before music theory.

Well, no. People are pretty sophisticated and I'm talking about from Bach to Ellington to Uturi forest Pygmy music... all cultures of the past know their music theories Very Well. As soon as you start to play you are in theory because music doesn't exist without it. It's just a common language so music can be coordinated. If you are a solo Delta blues guitarist I bet you know what you are doing by the time you are 79.

I'd start at rhythmic theory. A whole note is 4 beats, a half note is 2 beats. etc. down to 1/16ths (for motorboating) but then get back to feel because as we know, music came before theory

 

[Bruiser Stone]

Thank you OP for posting this. I’m in a similar boat myself. I’ve been learning/playing since summer last year, and I’ve developed opposite from how I thought I would when I started: the mental theory end of it is lagging, but I’ve made great strides in terms of dexterity. My fretting hand extension and accuracy has come a long way. But I’m frustrated that having the physical ability isn’t necessarily translating in picking up modes, notation, and all that jazz. It could be that my mind tends to drift, but even when I really hammer down and focus, it doesn’t come naturally. My biggest frustration: I play alone. I’m having a hard time finding someone else to apply what I’ve learned.

But I’ve invested a lot of time and money into this, and I’ll keep at it until the opportunity arises...or until I’m a bedroom Geezer. I hope you do the same.

 

[RichardW]

People are pretty sophisticated and I'm talking about from Bach to Ellington to Uturi forest Pygmy music... all cultures of the past know their music theories Very Well. As soon as you start to play you are in theory because music doesn't exist without it. It's just a common language so music can be coordinated. If you are a solo Delta blues guitarist I bet you know what you are doing by the time you are 79.

I'm not saying these folks were unsophisticated musicians, or didn't understand how music works. They had to pass down their musical wisdom from generation to generation, and certainly that counted as "theory" and provided the common language required. I'm just suggesting (based on no real evidence, ) that they probably didn't think about it as "music theory" or spent a lot of time discussing why some chord changes makes sense and others don't, or the intricacies of time signatures, or notation. All those have been added after the fact.

 

[nilorius]

I don't know what exactly do you mean by - music theory, but it absolutly would be good to know the solfeggio. It would give you a wider look to your music and to connect it better and faster with your brain, heart and fingers.

 

[hrodbert696]

Could you talk before you learned how to read or write? Music, like spoken language, is a form of communication. You can do it without knowing the rules, but it tends to be much more efficient and rewarding after you learn the “rules” (patterns, grammar, theory, whatever you wish to call it).

This. (and a couple of others who have posted similarly).

Yes, you can play music without knowing the theory behind it, the same way you can talk without learning grammar.

However, knowing grammar can assist you to talk more clearly and articulately, and it can also help you better understand someone who is talking to you in complex sentences.

Teaching, I often encounter undergraduate students who will be completely defeated by a text that uses complex, multi-clause sentences. They simply don't know how to find the main idea or grasp how the subordinate clauses color and nuance that idea. In their papers they often quote assigned texts as evidence for the exact opposite of what the author was saying. With stronger grammatical knowledge, and repeated exposure, they would be much less confused.

Likewise, knowledge of music theory can help you better learn a song, because it tells you where the original bassist or composer was going and how they were selecting their notes. It will also help you much more efficiently and effectively come up with bass lines of your own, because you'll have a stronger idea of what's likely to work in a given context rather than hash it out by trial and error.

 

[the federalist]

I was in the same boat, theory wise, with a private instructor.

This book and course may help:

Music Theory for the Bass Player: A Comprehensive and Hands-on Guide to Playing with More Confidence and Freedom

Ariene Cap is a TB member, a great instructor and a really nice person.

Agree completely with others that theory is a long slog.

 

[BassBrass]

I'm not saying these folks were unsophisticated musicians, or didn't understand how music works. They had to pass down their musical wisdom from generation to generation, and certainly that counted as "theory" and provided the common language required. I'm just suggesting (based on no real evidence, ) that they probably didn't think about it as "music theory" or spent a lot of time discussing why some chord changes makes sense and others don't, or the intricacies of time signatures, or notation. All those have been added after the fact.

Sure I agree, but I'm just saying that before the modern age people actually Did sit around and talk about why one chord seemed more right than another. (Unless it was tribal taboo to change the sacred melodies, this happened all the time) But anyway, they had time to name all the stars too. In the winter we study music.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I think the need to know music theory depends on your goals.

When I was a teen playing in the garage bands, and doing a few paying gigs on the local scene, I was learning songs by copying them off records. Anything about music theory totally escaped me. What was my goal then? Learn songs, get gigs.

After many years away from it and a renewed interest, I want more than just being able to copy bass lines or just play roots. (I know what a root is now BTW. ) I do not aspire to be in a band and/or play for money. Though I would like to be able to play with others just for the fun of it.

I decided to try to learn some music "theory" or at least what goes into playing at a level beyond just being a copycat, or just thumping out root/fifths all day. (See I already learned something new. Fifths. ). I play for my own entertainment at this point. But I also want to know more about some of the structure of music. What is my goal now?
To better understand what goes into making music and playing bass, and keeping my very gray matter active.

Hang in there. Don't push yourself to the point of frustration. But keep chipping away at it based on your goals.
Definitely have a discussion with your instructor. He may be good at what he does and willing to teach. And obviously you are a willing student interested in learning. That does not automatically mean that the two of you are a good match. But let him know how you've been feeling and give him a chance to come around to you. Otherwise, there are plenty of other people who you can work with.

Bets of luck.

 

[DavC]

as others have said .. No , not really ..

my first issue would be with the Teacher ... when i teach , i figure out a way to help folks understand what's going on ... if they don't get it , try another angle ... ( basically , i feel if they don't get it, it's my fault .! )

music is a language ... theory is a part of that ... the more you know about any language , the more fluently you can speak/communicate ..!

on the flip side , some folks have good ears for what sounds good , or what fits .. !! LISTEN ..!!

i'f a firm believer in learning some theory ... then feel free to forget it ,... because there are No Rules ..!!!

 

[pappabass]

I had years of music theory when I was a teenager, but now I play more by ear & feeling. We did not necessarily learn chord structures, notes in different scales. I could play all the scales & arpeggios, After I started playing string instruments & playing along with others chord structures, chord patterns, key signatures made a lot of sense.
I said all of that to say its not necessary. Some musicians can tell you every thing about every song & chord. Its a diminished A chord, play a G7 there, know every note up & down the neck. some just play & know they are playing a 3rd string on the 3rd fret.

 

[jnsnj]

Depends what you are planning on doing. Playing covers, no; writing, it will be a big help; teaching music theory, probably.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

I'm frustrated. Music theory is just not clicking with me. I feel like my brain just isn't wired to understand it. My instructor will go over something pretty basic, but then when he expands on it, or shows me something "that I can do now that I know that" I just don't get it. And it's driving me crazy and sapping my desire to practice. Honestly, I don't even know how to explain what he's showing me that I'm not getting...so yeah, that's where I'm at with theory.

I can play some songs based on tabs. Or my instructor will write out the song with just the chord in each measure & and I'll decide what note(s) I'll play to accompany the song. John Hiatt's "Dust Down A Country Road" for example. Instructor gave me the chords in each measure & I came up with a line pretty close to what Davey Faragher plays...but not exactly what he plays.

So I can do some things but I feel like I will only progress if I know some theory...but what if I just can't understand it? Am I sunk? If I simply can't understand theory what can I do?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Great question. I love babbling on and on about theory... but I’ll be the first to acknowledge that theory is not necessary to play or enjoy music. Most players I’ve encountered over the years have less theory knowledge than myself, and many are better technical players than myself. That said, most don’t have the diverse tastes in music I do, nor the ability to play a jazz gig one night, reggae the next, and punk the next, and a country session in between. I’m not bragging, I’ve worked hard to analyze the genres to really understand the different vocabularies each style uses. The reason punk sounds different than reggae is not just the instrument and amp settings, it’s also obviously rhythm, and maybe not so obviously, note choice, which is where theory and ear training really help. The biggest advantage of learning theory, is gaining understand of the patterns of what you’re hearing, and learning music faster.

I encourage you to stick it out, And perhaps try other teachers for learning that aspect of music, it’s hard to know what will click with individual students, but most can learn the basics necessary to analyze pop and rock music. I’d say that most pop and rock can be explained using theory I learned in the first month or two of music school. That said, we had musicianship classes 5 days a week, plus jazz theory, plus private lessons, plus private improv instruction, so it’s very normal to feel underwater while trying to learn in the typical one lesson a week. In fact, I never felt above water the entire time I was in music school! Yet now, 15 years out, I’m able to tutor grad level theory students, and mainly use my ears to do it, because I’m a little out of practice seeing French augmented 6ths I’m better and faster now than I was then, because I’ve been practicing this long.

 

[Hambone70]

No. Rote is a perfectly valid way of learning.

Check out the Suzuki Method: Invalid Link Removed