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Do I need to know theory to play?

I'm right there with you. The thing about music theory that I find so frustrating is that instructors I've had have never explained WHY I'm learning these things. How is this thing I'm supposed to learn related to what I want to do?

I'm a very visual/tactile learner. I learn best by having someone tell/show me, but then having me actually do it. If I have nothing to relate the music theory TO, then I get frustrated with it. Which is likely why I know next to nothing about music theory.
 
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To the OP, based on my personal experience, yes and no. Yes, you can start the way that I did and just memorize where to put your fingers for any given song. When you get lost, look for the rhythm guitarist's fretting hand - whatever note he/she is playing on the lowest string is what you should copy. You can get by doing for quite some time.

At some point though, learning new songs, especially complicated ones, will become really difficult. That's when having some knowledge of theory helps. If you know your chords and scales, it makes it a lot easier learn new songs, to improvise parts to songs when people ask you to play something completely new, etc.
 
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If you can create a bass line from the chords, then you know theory.
1. you understand keys
2. you understand scales, both major and minor
3. you understand chord tones, the difference between major and minor chords, 7th and major 7 chords, etc.
Although you may not know it intellectually, you are applying theory in your playing.
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much.
The more you play the more it may click anyway: if it's all theoretical I would think it would be pretty hard to understand. Whereas the more you play the more the basics will be making sense to you regardless of whether you are naming it or not.
Maybe don't worry about it for now and maybe revisit in a few months or years.
 
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i've known some impressive guitar and bass players who knew little to no theory.

Indeed. In the same way, I've known musicians who have a lot of theory but are short on musicality. They've tried to 'learn themselves better', but ultimately they aren't wired up to make music that is in any way moving or nuanced. At times I've found that these guys tend to put an emphasis on speed or complexity-for-the-sake-of-it, over raw musicality.

I think it probably helps if one doesn't view any one bit of being a musician as something that falls into 'essential' and 'avoidable' buckets. Does a player want to avoid theory simply because it seems a bit like hard work, a bit too academic or because Famous Player X couldn't even read notation? It depends on what you want out of it! I've met players who are peversely entitled about their ability to read music, or the fact that they can't read music; each wearing this fact like a badge of honour. The same maybe applies for a lot of theory. At the same time it is hard to know what you actually need to learn. When I studied music theory (as a kid, alongside learning the violin) I had to memorise reams of Italian phrases among other things, and was taught musical concepts as though music had to adhere to a rigid framework of rules.

I wonder how much theory you pick up along the way, anyway. And how big the difference is between grasping a theory concept and either being able, or not being able, to explain the concept. So many guitarists know which chords work well together, but they likely couldn't explain fully why these chords work. My limited theory studies only told me which chords should and shouldn't be strung together, after all! It is a bit like artists or photographers claiming that a good photo or painting must contain the Golden ratio in it somewhere, and that we such art or photography pleasing as a result of this. Don't you have to first learn what the Golden ratio is, actively seek it out in artwork, and don't some of the best artists break these rules anyway?

A young Frank Zappa apparently sought out a compositional text book, and headed to the section of the book that covered things to avoid doing when composing music. He then played all these inadvisable combinations of notes and chords!

Maybe it depends ultimately on who you are playing with. Extensive theory knowledge is probably great if every player you're with is on the same page, and you can simply call out chord progressions on the fly and everybody can keep up. Probably this is good for session work where you have to learn a number of tunes in quick succession. However it might not be as helpful at an open mic night, or round the campfire. This is the difference between saying "A string, fourth fret!", "A major with a C# in the bass" or "A major, 1st inversion" I guess! It depends on the player.
 
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I'm frustrated. Music theory is just not clicking with me. I feel like my brain just isn't wired to understand it. My instructor will go over something pretty basic, but then when he expands on it, or shows me something "that I can do now that I know that" I just don't get it. And it's driving me crazy and sapping my desire to practice. Honestly, I don't even know how to explain what he's showing me that I'm not getting...so yeah, that's where I'm at with theory.

I can play some songs based on tabs. Or my instructor will write out the song with just the chord in each measure & and I'll decide what note(s) I'll play to accompany the song. John Hiatt's "Dust Down A Country Road" for example. Instructor gave me the chords in each measure & I came up with a line pretty close to what Davey Faragher plays...but not exactly what he plays.

So I can do some things but I feel like I will only progress if I know some theory...but what if I just can't understand it? Am I sunk? If I simply can't understand theory what can I do?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
I'm too lazy when it comes to theory. It takes all the fun out of playing, for me. I understand that this will limit my musical horizons but I'm ok with that.
 
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Table corn versus nebula activity towards tomorrow cannot carrot firmly alfalfa smegma the giraffe. <That's playing without any knowledge of theory. All of those words are actual words in the English vocabulary, but they are thrown together haphazardly without making a statement or sense. <The last two sentences are playing with a knowledge of music theory. They make a logical point (arguably so) and have a precise meaning. Do you need theory to play? If you have the gift of playing the right random notes often enough, no. That would like playing the lottery, though. Hope this helps to illustrate the situation for you. Have a great day!
 
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Table corn versus nebula activity towards tomorrow cannot carrot firmly alfalfa smegma the giraffe. <That's playing without any knowledge of theory. All of those words are actual words in the English vocabulary, but they are thrown together haphazardly without making a statement or sense. <The last two sentences are playing with a knowledge of music theory. They make a logical point (arguably so) and have a precise meaning. Do you need theory to play? If you have the gift of playing the right random notes often enough, no. That would like playing the lottery, though. Hope this helps to illustrate the situation for you. Have a great day!

lots of people know what sounds good, what is where on their fretboards, what notes / chords work together without knowing theory. they're not playing the lottery and hitting the "right random notes". they know what works musically from experience and from listening, really hearing, and from an innate sense of music. they may not know what a whole note or quarter notes are called, but they know when eighth notes sound good and when a single ringing whole note fits the song.
 
I'm frustrated. Music theory is just not clicking with me. I feel like my brain just isn't wired to understand it. My instructor will go over something pretty basic, but then when he expands on it, or shows me something "that I can do now that I know that" I just don't get it. And it's driving me crazy and sapping my desire to practice. Honestly, I don't even know how to explain what he's showing me that I'm not getting...so yeah, that's where I'm at with theory.

I can play some songs based on tabs. Or my instructor will write out the song with just the chord in each measure & and I'll decide what note(s) I'll play to accompany the song. John Hiatt's "Dust Down A Country Road" for example. Instructor gave me the chords in each measure & I came up with a line pretty close to what Davey Faragher plays...but not exactly what he plays.

So I can do some things but I feel like I will only progress if I know some theory...but what if I just can't understand it? Am I sunk? If I simply can't understand theory what can I do?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Some guys need the theory, maybe your tutor is one of them. Lots of people don't need it at all, they have a particularly good ear. No-one needs theory to play John Hiatt. Miles Davis maybe but not John Hiatt. Stop stressing, trust your ears and experiment

I'm frustrated. Music theory is just not clicking with me. I feel like my brain just isn't wired to understand it. My instructor will go over something pretty basic, but then when he expands on it, or shows me something "that I can do now that I know that" I just don't get it. And it's driving me crazy and sapping my desire to practice. Honestly, I don't even know how to explain what he's showing me that I'm not getting...so yeah, that's where I'm at with theory.

I can play some songs based on tabs. Or my instructor will write out the song with just the chord in each measure & and I'll decide what note(s) I'll play to accompany the song. John Hiatt's "Dust Down A Country Road" for example. Instructor gave me the chords in each measure & I came up with a line pretty close to what Davey Faragher plays...but not exactly what he plays.

So I can do some things but I feel like I will only progress if I know some theory...but what if I just can't understand it? Am I sunk? If I simply can't understand theory what can I do?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
 
lots of people know what sounds good, what is where on their fretboards, what notes / chords work together without knowing theory. they're not playing the lottery and hitting the "right random notes". they know what works musically from experience and from listening, really hearing, and from an innate sense of music. they may not know what a whole note or quarter notes are called, but they know when eighth notes sound good and when a single ringing whole note fits the song.
As usual, Pcake, I'm using extremes to illustrate a point. Memorizing the notes and positions on the fingerboard is sufficient to play in many bands. Being able to play any given note on command without understanding why is the difference between "training" and "education". Being "trained" is like being a boxcar. You follow the locomotive without causing a train wreck, hopefully. Education is being able to learn the train's route, adjust the speed according to the conditions, be prepared for unforeseen obstacles on the tracks, and having the ability to take over if the conductor and engineer get abducted by aliens enroute. Personally, I have no desire to be a boxcar. Have a great day.
 
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Short answer: No.
There are plenty of things you can do without knowing theory. Like play notation (if you’ve learned it), learn a song by ear (if you have a good ear), play tabs (if you can find accurate ones).

I’m not sure how you know what notes to play in a chord chart without theory, unless you only play roots.

For me, this was key. When I was first learning, I would just play roots. Over time, as my ear developed, it became much more obvious to me as to what worked with what chord, and I became more comfortable in working with those scales. I know very little theory aside from some basic things along the lines of chord degrees. Everything else came from a process of trial and error and just listening to a lot of music.

I've tried multiple times to learn theory, and, once I finish my M.A. in English, I want to circle back to it again, because I think it's a shortcut to the things that can take years to develop an intuition for.

I always encourage at least some knowledge of theory, because it can help you to develop quickly.
 
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i'd be in the group who says "no: theory is not necessary to play an instrument well." some of what we're calling 'theory' in the thread could be helpful if you plan on playing with cats who 'know more' than yourself --- and likewise, you may learn all the 'theory' you'll ever need by playing with cats who know more than you.

it sounds like you're already playing some, so i'm thinking you're already using some "theory," too...whether or not you are aware of it! but since you're trying to wrap your head around some of it:
I encourage you to stick it out, And perhaps try other teachers for learning that aspect of music, it’s hard to know what will click with individual students, but most can learn the basics necessary to analyze pop and rock music.



Would you say Jimi Hendrix understood music theory, yes or no?
i know you posted this for https://www.talkbass.com/members/lfmn16.202464/ , but i'm guessing that hendrix didn't care what/why things worked as long as they worked for him and his tunes. i've never really been a jimi fanboy, but i certainly respect his place in rock history...and a lot the best rock cats don't know dink about the theoretical. big whup! if you have the ability to write or play stuff which the whole world wants to hear over and over again = you don't need any theory. you need a road manager and a bus! so i'm saying he probably didn't know much (if anything) about what we're calling "theory" in this thread. just a guess --- do you know what he knew? curious, thanks.
 
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Gotta say yes, you do. Anything else would be dishonest and a disservice.

You don’t need it to play, sort of, but you absolutely need it to communicate to your fellow musicians, and they to you. You absolutely need it to understand (not play, not compose, but understand) harmony. And as a bassist, your life is two things: rhythm and harmony.

I find it interesting that some of the few who come down on the “yeah you do” side are those who teach English or are in fields where proper grammar and writing are a big deal. They are fundamentally right on the question, for all the reasons they cite. It’s about having a language for communicating your ideas.
 
You absolutely can be good without theory. You will be giving up a very useful tool though, so think carefully before you opt to skip learning theory and don’t be afraid to change your mind later. Personally I just can’t find a way to make learning musical theory into anything other than a miserable slog, so I do without it. It’s not a decision I’ve taken lightly, but for me fun has to take priority over the opportunities knowing theory would open up for me. If you feel the same way, that’s just the way it is.
 
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